Losing confidence in dog

Springer22 said:
Headed to the game farm this morning. Big confidence boost for the both of us. We had fun.

She found all our birds and I was shooting well enough, ha! She caught a running hen, I missed a chukar, went over where it landed and she got on the trail, chased it 120 yards through the woods and brought it back to me. Also got into a brawl with a poorly hit angry rooster and won. Cant tell you how stoked I was to see that.


She did run past a few we had to circle back to, she just gets excited and isn’t using her nose the best sometimes. I’m sure she will figure that out more as she gets more experienced.

Thinking back to a few months ago, she has came a tremendously long way. And I am very happy with where we are. I had been walking lots of heavily pressured public land and I was expecting way to much, frustrated, and may have been using her as a bit of scape goat.

Thanks again for the pep talks
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BRITTMAN said:
Explain ... when would you hit the correction (shock) button when your dog is on birds ?????

I have never placed an e-collar on a dog of mine. The only reason I would consider it I guess is if they were deer obsessed or if snake training.
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I use shock for whoa.. it’s light and use it regularly on a dog of mine who creeps when honoring a point.
 
Springer22 said:
Headed to the game farm this morning. Big confidence boost for the both of us. We had fun.

She found all our birds and I was shooting well enough, ha! She caught a running hen, I missed a chukar, went over where it landed and she got on the trail, chased it 120 yards through the woods and brought it back to me. Also got into a brawl with a poorly hit angry rooster and won. Cant tell you how stoked I was to see that.


She did run past a few we had to circle back to, she just gets excited and isn’t using her nose the best sometimes. I’m sure she will figure that out more as she gets more experienced.

Thinking back to a few months ago, she has came a tremendously long way. And I am very happy with where we are. I had been walking lots of heavily pressured public land and I was expecting way to much, frustrated, and may have been using her as a bit of scape goat.

Thanks again for the pep talks boys
View attachment 6897
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O U T S T A N D I N G 🤜🏼🤛🏼
 
Your dog is still a puppy.

Repeat that 10 times over in your head before you turn her loose.

You've got the wrong expectation for a 1 year old dog. Some dogs take longer to put it together.

Best advice for anyone with a young dog.
"Let a puppy be a puppy." - Mr Ferrel Miller
 
Springer22 said:
Headed to the game farm this morning. Big confidence boost for the both of us. We had fun.

She found all our birds and I was shooting well enough, ha! She caught a running hen, I missed a chukar, went over where it landed and she got on the trail, chased it 120 yards through the woods and brought it back to me. Also got into a brawl with a poorly hit angry rooster and won. Cant tell you how stoked I was to see that.


She did run past a few we had to circle back to, she just gets excited and isn’t using her nose the best sometimes. I’m sure she will figure that out more as she gets more experienced.

Thinking back to a few months ago, she has came a tremendously long way. And I am very happy with where we are. I had been walking lots of heavily pressured public land and I was expecting way to much, frustrated, and may have been using her as a bit of scape goat.

Thanks again for the pep talks boys
View attachment 6897
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Just like any athlete, the more game time you get the better you get!
 
Weimdogman said:
Why even comment when you have no idea of how to properly use a ecollar??????
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Stuck a nerve did I, maybe you have the correction collar around your own neck. Remember the Cheers episode with Cliff ??

My original comment was more a question to the original poster. If you e-collar correct a dog (especially a young dog in training) while they are on a bird - you just created a man-made problem right ???

Many (if not most?) do not know how to use. I have witnessed many poor users out there ... then they wonder why their dog is reluctant to reach out and find birds. Glad you have master correction collars and are comfortable with them. Share what works.

I get why professionals use them. They do not have the same time I do to work and train a single dog. A good pro trainer should also spend ample time with their client on proper use of e-collars when they hand the dog back to the owner.

I have successfully trained 6 Brittanys with number 7 in my house right now. One (first dog) has been to a pro trainer (whole story in itself) and none had a correction collar on them. I am hopeful that I will not have to go that direction and fairly sure I will not need it. My dogs came from very good breeding and pointed naturally. All whoa on command ... My pup appears to naturally back already ... it is amazing to watch.

I have stated on other threads - I am NOT a dog trainer ... the number of dogs I have had is limited ... I have faced different challenges with every dog ... but all my dogs have become "damn good meat dogs". Hunt hard and listen well. When I used to go to dog club training ... my dogs were on par and often further along than dogs headed to trials and hunt tests... I share on this site because if you start with a good dog ... be patient ... spend the time ... put on birds ... a person can successfully train their dog on their own!

I have two very good friends that are successful field trial dog handlers or hunt test participants, both use e-collars on their labs ... the dogs can become almost like "robots", but then that is what retrieving trials are somewhat about ... very concise performance and splitting hairs on which dog did it better. I will also say that labs can tolerate much more physical and psychological control/commands than Brittanys. Do not know enough about Springers to say where they fall in that spectrum.

I mention my friends because I have two available teachers if I ever need one on ecollars. Hey we are actually still good friends too despite our known differences and preferences for dogs (labs vs. Britts) and our preference and use of e-collars. ;)
 
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Weimdogman said:
Brittman how do you whoa train?
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We should start a separate thread. I would be glad to share, but again I have trained one dog at a time. I would be glad to listen to what others do to possibly incorporate into my strategy for my pup. It has been about 6-7 years since I last whoa trained a dog.

I do generally like the Smith methods. I have Bill Tarrant's book on the Delmar Smith dog method. I have watched his "kids" videos ... but I do not follow either the book or the videos religiously ... I like their overall philosophy with dogs (specifically with Brittanys). Tried the piggy rope ... did not need it. No chain gang. Never needed the whoa post either. It is more the soft, repeated, and reassuring manner that I guess I prefer ... again Britts.

This five-month-old Britt I have now ... I have shared comments with my breeder that I have never seen a dog "point" (wings, other dogs, birds in the yard, etc) and hold naturally on his own ... his basic instincts are dang strong. We will see, I guess. Hope I do not mess him up ...
 
A5 Sweet 16 said:
I am far from an expert. I know that tolerance/response to electric stimulation can differ from dog to dog. And I think it's a no-brainer that a person can affect the response by the manner in which stimulation is applied. But do others also believe response can be breed specific?
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A5 Sweet 16 said:
I am far from an expert. I know that tolerance/response to electric stimulation can differ from dog to dog. And I think it's a no-brainer that a person can affect the response by the manner in which stimulation is applied. But do others also believe response can be breed specific?
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I do in general, and more importantly dog specific, I’ve never owned a Brittany or lab so my experience with an e collar falls in a different conversation.. each person envisions the collar on there dog, same are suited for it some aren’t.
 
Quailnerd said:
Quailnerd said:
I do in general, and more importantly dog specific, I’ve never owned a Brittany or lab so my experience with an e collar falls in a different conversation.. each person envisions the collar on there dog, same are suited for it some aren’t.
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Agreed. Some dogs any stimulation and they will shut down, with others it is just an annoyance. I don’t know about your Pudelpointer but I have found mine to have a prey drive I couldn’t quash with an anvil. She has required more than most of the Labs I have had. She is starting to figure out what I want from her.
 
BRITTMAN said:
This five-month-old Britt I have now ... I have shared comments with my breeder that I have never seen a dog "point" (wings, other dogs, birds in the yard, etc) and hold naturally on his own ... his basic instincts are dang strong. We will see, I guess. Hope I do not mess him up ...
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I'm surprised to hear you say this. All my dogs just naturally started to point, some sooner and others later. All different breeds which I am sure affects things.

My Weim was the latest at probably close to a year. Just started naturally on birds one day and that was that. The Vizsla was pointing at 4-5 months and the rest of the litter was similar. the Britt I have now couldn't say because I got him at 3 yrs and he was professionally started. I think pointers will just naturally point. Some sooner than others.

And I never really trained my dogs to point, the only thing I would do is retrieval work more as exercise than anything else. My dogs trained me more than I trained them
 
Let me separate out that handler (me) and dog interaction vs. dog and bird interaction are very much separate. My Britts live in the house, but are all business in the field and their drive to find birds (fresh or dead/wounded) is insanely intense and relentless. Squirrels and bunnies meet their demise often in our backyard (fenced). Brittanys are generally soft in their actions with humans and most often eager to please and fit in.

I find if my current 7-year-old dog does not respond to me when I give him a single whistle or say once his name and the command here ... that I better hustle my butt to him because he is on a running pheasant.

I know for some the GPS tracker is not "it", but for me I know exactly where they are and what they are (for the most part) doing even if they are out of sight (tall grass, hills, forest, etc). For me it was exactly what I needed to give them the freedom to do what I want them to do. No bells for this guy ...
 
AtTheMurph said:
I'm surprised to hear you say this. All my dogs just naturally started to point, some sooner and others later. All different breeds which I am sure affects things.

My Weim was the latest at probably close to a year. Just started naturally on birds one day and that was that. The Vizsla was pointing at 4-5 months and the rest of the litter was similar. the Britt I have now couldn't say because I got him at 3 yrs and he was professionally started. I think pointers will just naturally point. Some sooner than others.

And I never really trained my dogs to point, the only thing I would do is retrieval work more as exercise than anything else. My dogs trained me more than I trained them
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He was doing all that at 10 - 12 weeks and still does it now. The early "backing" was the most surprising. If the older dogs are not moving in the yard. He looks at them and freezes, sometimes lifting his front paw. Typically holds until the other dog is moving. This is not training just backyard antics. I am watching from inside since our backyard is fenced.

All my dogs pointed naturally at a very young age. Whoa and a checkcord at say 8 - 10 months is all that is needed to get them to the point where I can walk past them ... usually I have someone with me so no need for a post. Britt in my avatar started young and never needed much training at all ... she had a phenomenal nose, held point from day one, loved to retrieve. The avatar is from a 30-bird retrieve field day in the decoys. Next day she was hunting pheasants.

I like whoa because it reinforces a dog's behavior on those days where he has to find wounded birds and fresh birds ... a little whoa reminds 'em quickly that this bird is going to fly and he (dog) needs to stay put. That said on more than one occasion I have walked past my dog and picked up the pointed bird (alive). After a few years or so ... I also release my dogs and let them flush the bird once I feel comfortable that this won't mess them up.
 
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AtTheMurph said:
My dogs trained me more than I trained them
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I have thot that many times. I teach them the basic commands -- come, whoa, heel, kennel, etc. The birds teach them how to hunt. The first thing the birds teach them is to point.

I am referring to wild birds. I will not let my dog go anywhere near a PR bird if I can help it. Because they do not act like wild birds do they teach the dog the wrong things.
 
I am a collar advocate but also know it is the most abused, dangerous tool out there. I have a 9 month old Draht that could do no wrong the first two months of season but if hes chasing a hen or missed rooster over the horizon now I have no problem reinforcing my command. A guy way more intelligent then me told me something I wont forget, "An E collar is to reinforce LEARNED commands at a distance". This takes maturity and discipline to practice but "never say never" and we all find the training practice that works for us.
 
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