I have been seeing some breeders giving limited AKC papers with their pups. What is your thoughts on this? When I bought my citori Grand lightning Browning didn't say only shoot Browning shells in it. I think if I pay for the pup there should be no strings attached, am I wrong?
Limited registration
- Thread starter Copperboy
- Start date
Lots of unscrupulous people out there producing puppies with conditions that are extremely preventable in an attempt to make money. Many breeders do it to ensure the dogs they produce are health and genetic tested prior to releasing breeding rights. Some simply do it because they have spent a lifetime building a line they wish to maintain some control over. The good news is that you don't have to buy a puppy from any breeder whose standards as a seller are in opposition to your standards as a buyer.
Gatzby
Well-known member
I think it is a good practice. Any litter I have seen with limited registration also includes verbiage to the effect if you do health testing and train dog to a certain level full registration will be granted. Limited registration only effects you if you intend to breed, if you don't breed who cares. And if you plan to breed you should only do so if your dog has the potential to improve the breed. IE Has all the breed specific recommended health clearances, and has proven ability's.
I will not breed my stud dog for litters without limited registration.
I will not breed my stud dog for litters without limited registration.
remy3424
Well-known member
Like that statement. You can't assume that people do the right thing. I know 2 fellas that want to breed their dogs. One whos dog just isn't what the standard of the breed generally looks like, and isn't anything exception, the other fella, bought one to hunt with and the intension to breed, not even sure how the dog will hunt yet...good insticts or not, is unknown. Seems like a good way to diminish the breed.
But personally, I wouldn't like the "Limited" registration, but I certainly understand it. It wouldn't prevent me from buying from the breeder.
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Chestle
Well-known member
I would not buy a pup with a limited registration UNLESS (as Gatzby mentioned) there was a defined way to qualify for removal of the limitation.
For example, a clause stating that once I had obtained the listed health clearances (OFA, Optigen/PRA, EIC, etc.) and had tested the dog to some defined level of field work (I have also seen clauses with some level of show points) like AKC or HRC JH/SR/MH THEN the limitation would be removed. (I have also seen clauses that required a defined level of show participation in addition to fieldwork, ie: "dual purpose" Labradors).
For example, a clause stating that once I had obtained the listed health clearances (OFA, Optigen/PRA, EIC, etc.) and had tested the dog to some defined level of field work (I have also seen clauses with some level of show points) like AKC or HRC JH/SR/MH THEN the limitation would be removed. (I have also seen clauses that required a defined level of show participation in addition to fieldwork, ie: "dual purpose" Labradors).
G-Texan
Member
We all like to believe in the superior potential of our puppies when purchased. The reality is the vast majority of pups are average. Leave the breeding to the professionals with the intention of improving the breed. Breeding is a lot of work and it doesn’t generate nearly the income imagined. Every breed would be better off if left to professionals. By the way, I’m not a breeder or a trainer.
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Very nice post - well written too!
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
My opinion has changed over the last few years. I've only had 3 FBESS, all of which have been fantastic in terms of my needs/wants/expectations, & in some respects I totally lucked out. But I'm learning how experienced conscientious breeders see their work & the importance they place on maintaining (if not improving) a breed's integrity (to say nothing of their reputation). It's a big deal & I agree with the concept. I have no interest in breeding whatsoever, but if I did, I'm thinking most people couldn't afford a puppy of mine that didn't have strings attached.
A5 Sweet 16
Well-known member
I'm in control of my purchases just as much as a breeder is in control of his sales. If the going price is $2M for a well bred no-strings-attached puppy, I'd probably have to settle for one w/ strings attached. Or...a less well bred pup w/ no strings. If I'm willing to accept the possibilities normally associated with spending less.
Golden Hour
Well-known member
Lots of good points on here. I grew up with females, that's what I have now and I don't ever see myself breeding. I've always been averse to the "puppies for money" game. I appreciate that breeders put a concerted effort into who buys their pups just as much as a person should put that same effort into finding the right pup at the right time.
Gatzby
Well-known member
Copperboy,
Puppies are a lot different than shotguns or potatoes or most any other commodity. Puppies are so so much more, first you put your bitch at risk, then help all night with the birth (never happens during the day?!) praying not to have a blue pup or still born, then spend 7-8 weeks worrying, carrying for, and falling in love with them. Only to hand them off to more or less strangers. They do become a part of you and you want the best for them. I have no children but when one of my pups passes the Master National I'm guessing the feeling is similar to watching your kid graduate High School.
Limited registration is one of the few safeguards a breeder has other than careful screening of potential buyers. I suggested you consider limited registration as a sign of a reputable breeder that puts health and wellbeing in front of profit. And at the end of the day the choice is yours if you do not like limited registration you have the option to look elsewhere.
Gatzby
Well-known member
A5
I have not seen a litter where the price is X for full registration or Y for limited registration. While I suppose some unscrupulous breeder could try this I don't see it happening with a reputable breeder.
All Limited Registration does is restrict you from from registering a new litter without the permission of the original breeder of your sire or dam. And if you have a limited registered dog that you want to breed all the original breeder needs to do contact the AKC and boom your dog has full registration with no added expense.
Its really a great way to make sure one of your pups doesn't become a brood bitch living in a kennel pumping out puppies for profit.
Gatsby I will agree that there is a difference, the guns spend their time in the safe when not hunting and the GSP's are in the house and sleep in our bed at night. I do think all the health screenings OFA etc. should be done before breeding and honestly if I ever did breed one of the girls it would definitely be to a male that I would personally own.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
I understand what you are saying but when it comes to dogs I believe you are wrong. It's a way to control breeding and developing superior dogs.
Copperboy
If a dog's owner (father/mother) trains the dog so that it achieves titles in hunt tests / field trials it takes a lot of time and some dollars to do that.
entry fees , gas , motels , meals - so if someone buys a dog from a breeder who does those things gets full registration then never does any of the training etc buts starts breeding selling pups -grandson/daughter of FC/AFC Hotdog MH and GHRCH Lovedux MH. Then they didn't do any work
only bought a pup or two maybe and are taking advantage of some one else's hard work. So one reason for the limited registration , get a title on the pup that you bought along with the health checks and the full registration is yours
If a dog's owner (father/mother) trains the dog so that it achieves titles in hunt tests / field trials it takes a lot of time and some dollars to do that.
entry fees , gas , motels , meals - so if someone buys a dog from a breeder who does those things gets full registration then never does any of the training etc buts starts breeding selling pups -grandson/daughter of FC/AFC Hotdog MH and GHRCH Lovedux MH. Then they didn't do any work
only bought a pup or two maybe and are taking advantage of some one else's hard work. So one reason for the limited registration , get a title on the pup that you bought along with the health checks and the full registration is yours
I'm with you - I'd never buy a dog from some pompous breeder that puts strings on what I can and can't do. I'd lump those folks in with crazy dog people that see their dogs as human equals.
I'd disagree - the two are far, far apart.
"Pompous breeder." hahaha that made me laugh.
My first dog was bought on limited registration... Simply because the guy didn't know me from Adam. We developed a relationship - this dog lead me to hunting passionately, going to competitions, getting involved in rescue. So it was an easy phone call when I bred him and the breeder had zero problems with it.
That being said, limited registration is not really a big deal. The only thing you can't do is register the litter through that registry if you want to breed. I think people blow the "puts strings on what I can do" considerably out of proportion. If the sole reason for purchasing a dog is to breed, and you feel controlled by that "pompous breeder" then it's an easy decision for you and the breeder. I know I wouldn't want to sell a pup to someone who balked because of limited registration. But that's me and my opinion.
Gatzby
Well-known member
You did a great job of proving my point. Thank you
Cbr70 titles aren't everything nor should it be a stipulation for full registration. There is no AKC stipulation that you have to competition hunt your dog for full registration. Quite honestly I make to much money 
working weekends to take off work to field trial. Got out of that with my beagles when I could work Saturday and Sunday and have off all week to hunt and make more money working 2 days a week on weekends than 5 days a week. I personally would rather hunt 5 days a week than work 5 days a week. Union contracts can be a wonderful thing for workers
working weekends to take off work to field trial. Got out of that with my beagles when I could work Saturday and Sunday and have off all week to hunt and make more money working 2 days a week on weekends than 5 days a week. I personally would rather hunt 5 days a week than work 5 days a week. Union contracts can be a wonderful thing for workers