keeping birds for training
- Thread starter MikeGunn
- Start date
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
I don't even no if it is legal. Personally I keep pigeons. Much better for training than quail. They are much more hardy and can take a beating. And much easier to raise. I built my loft from scraps and pigeons are just fun to have. Seems like mine raise a couple of squabs about every other month.
As far as exposure, its a good thing. Mine run straight to the loft when let out of the kennel.
BRITTMAN
Well-known member
I train my own dogs to hunt with me. The dogs I buy, I keep.
Not a professional trainer that has to deliver a trained dog at the beginning of the hunting season ... so my comments are limited to those that want an effective bird dog companion that you trained yourself.
I am also not training a bunch of dogs at once. So if I was training dogs for a business ... I get that pigeons are the most cost effective "tool" in regards to birds.
I have found little need for a lot of birds over the summer and find some dogs (through observations with bird dog clubs) that are trained on pigeons almost react to the situation as a training game ... also all that chlorophyll in the summer grass hides scent and dogs seem to get too close to these planted birds. The scent cone of planted birds in the summer is small.
I prefer to work on retrieving, obedience, whoa, etc... in the summer.
I really like chukar for working young dogs across the entire fall and good for refreshing even the oldest bird dog.
What is a professional trainer charging these days ... 100 - 200 per week. Put have that money (or what you can afford) into a fund for preserve chukars. Have them planted where you know they are or plant them yourself ... use the check cord ... have a friend shoot ... if they miss ... chukars usually don't fly that far and follow ups are more like wild birds ...
I would rather put my dog on many birds once every week or two, than a pigeon every morning.
Just my opinion, but I have been hunting over Britts for almost 35 years and they all do (did) a pretty nice job in the field and woods.
Wild birds are great to train on when allowed by law. Many of the big name pointer trainers go to the Dakotas and Prairie Canada in August ... training on wild prairie birds with their dogs and a host of client dogs.
Not a professional trainer that has to deliver a trained dog at the beginning of the hunting season ... so my comments are limited to those that want an effective bird dog companion that you trained yourself.
I am also not training a bunch of dogs at once. So if I was training dogs for a business ... I get that pigeons are the most cost effective "tool" in regards to birds.
I have found little need for a lot of birds over the summer and find some dogs (through observations with bird dog clubs) that are trained on pigeons almost react to the situation as a training game ... also all that chlorophyll in the summer grass hides scent and dogs seem to get too close to these planted birds. The scent cone of planted birds in the summer is small.
I prefer to work on retrieving, obedience, whoa, etc... in the summer.
I really like chukar for working young dogs across the entire fall and good for refreshing even the oldest bird dog.
What is a professional trainer charging these days ... 100 - 200 per week. Put have that money (or what you can afford) into a fund for preserve chukars. Have them planted where you know they are or plant them yourself ... use the check cord ... have a friend shoot ... if they miss ... chukars usually don't fly that far and follow ups are more like wild birds ...
I would rather put my dog on many birds once every week or two, than a pigeon every morning.
Just my opinion, but I have been hunting over Britts for almost 35 years and they all do (did) a pretty nice job in the field and woods.
Wild birds are great to train on when allowed by law. Many of the big name pointer trainers go to the Dakotas and Prairie Canada in August ... training on wild prairie birds with their dogs and a host of client dogs.
FCSpringer
Moderator
If keeping birds was a bad thing for your dogs, then each one of us that field trials would be screwed LOL. Just sayin.
. I don't know a pro trainer or any trainer who does not keep birds.
. I don't know a pro trainer or any trainer who does not keep birds.
Gatzby
Well-known member
Go for it! Birds make bird dogs. I dont know any pro trainer that doesn't keep birds on site.
I'm an amature and I keep pigeons if I have a pup, and ducks and pheasants for the big dogs.
Pigeons are kinda fun to keep and you can use them like a garbage disposal for food scraps!
I'm an amature and I keep pigeons if I have a pup, and ducks and pheasants for the big dogs.
Pigeons are kinda fun to keep and you can use them like a garbage disposal for food scraps!
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Can't get any of the preserves here in Kansas to sell you a chuckar anymore. By law it is not legal to sell to the public. And not legal for an individual to use them for training.
BRITTMAN
Well-known member
I now have (and usually have had) year around access to land and access to birds pretty much when I want them. I will have a young pup this summer so I suppose I will buy a few pigeons and quail/chukar each month.
My preference is chukar > quail > pigeon, then again ... if they die I eat them ... if they escape ... the local predators feed their young I guess. Trainers are on a budget ... more money spent on birds is less in their pocket (or bank account) - so I get the pigeon thing.
My dogs typically find birds, point and hold without much training or repetitive training - it is in their DNA. My young dog right now points wings, song birds, and wiffle balls. I have little doubt he will need much "teaching" in that aspect of his bird dog life when he runs into real (live) birds. Steady, whoa, etc... sure.
Few ruffed grouse and fewer rooster pheasants behave like planted or trap thrown pigeons.
Bird dogs learn most when they are out there figuring it all out ... Again that is why many of your top bird dog trainers spend late winter in Texas/Oklahoma and late summer in prairie Canada.
My preference is chukar > quail > pigeon, then again ... if they die I eat them ... if they escape ... the local predators feed their young I guess. Trainers are on a budget ... more money spent on birds is less in their pocket (or bank account) - so I get the pigeon thing.
My dogs typically find birds, point and hold without much training or repetitive training - it is in their DNA. My young dog right now points wings, song birds, and wiffle balls. I have little doubt he will need much "teaching" in that aspect of his bird dog life when he runs into real (live) birds. Steady, whoa, etc... sure.
Few ruffed grouse and fewer rooster pheasants behave like planted or trap thrown pigeons.
Bird dogs learn most when they are out there figuring it all out ... Again that is why many of your top bird dog trainers spend late winter in Texas/Oklahoma and late summer in prairie Canada.
Really? When did this change? Do you have a link? I have bought some chukar not too long ago.
I'm indifferent on chukar. Some didn't fly worth a damn. The quail I bought flew much, much better. That being said, it all depends on your source.
As far as birds go, it all depends on your level of training you want to attain. If you want a dog to flash point, or point simply long enough until you get close, then, sure I can understand. But if you want to break a dog out completely, then you will likely need a bird source.
PheasantWhisperer
Member
Usually the license for quail and pheasant is more strict. Chukar are exotic and do not require as many permits. Or as expensive permits. People in Missouri have been going the chukar route quite a bit. As far as flying. It depends on the source like stated above. Our chukars fly great. Better than anything we have. But we dont put them in a bunch of 200 in a 8 x 12 johnny house like ive seen.
BRITTMAN
Well-known member
My brother had guinea fowl and chickens running around his house for years. Bird dogs ignored them.
When I showed up my dogs would take a little time to ignore (verbal command) and I usually made sure they were not around when I let my dogs stretch. Every once in awhile a chicken was picked up and brought to hand.
They hunted fine the same day.
That said, I wouldn't expose a pup to that circus.
When I showed up my dogs would take a little time to ignore (verbal command) and I usually made sure they were not around when I let my dogs stretch. Every once in awhile a chicken was picked up and brought to hand.
They hunted fine the same day.
That said, I wouldn't expose a pup to that circus.
Thanks for all the responses . I'm looking to learn anything and everything I can about training and hunting a bird dog.Because i live in an area where the bird dog community is small and the areas we can hunt is even smaller ,I appreciate all of you sharing your knowledge with me.
My PP was/is a bird crazy SOB. If I had to start from scratch again- I would have a loft and pigeons prior to the pup. The work I did with the pigeons far exceeded the pen raised birds and got him steady on point much faster- IMO.
I have seen some of the NAVHDA pups catch quail and chuckar and it set back the steadiness on point considerably. I have never seen a pup catch a pigeon and in fact found that they work better to "train" the dog to point...
just my 2 cents.
I have seen some of the NAVHDA pups catch quail and chuckar and it set back the steadiness on point considerably. I have never seen a pup catch a pigeon and in fact found that they work better to "train" the dog to point...
just my 2 cents.