KDWP Credibility?

N

NCKHusker

New member
This is a spin off of another post, but I think it is important to know what is going on.

Zeepo said:
After the forecast came out by KDWP I called the farmer I know that farms over 10,000 acres. He told me he was seeing very few pheasants. I then called the 2 KDWP agents for that area and they told me the same thing. I ask if the pheasant population was not that good then why the great forecast. They did not have an answer for that. Zeepo
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I think this is a BIG problem. Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks (KDWP) is spinning the truth and it hurts all of us across the board.

They do the same thing with waterfowl. I am also a waterfowler and I go to the KDWP website and see the waterfowl reports they update regularly. They will say there are X amount of birds. They rarely are correct, I'm mean not even close. I have literally seen then post there are 5,000 birds at Jamestown Wildlife Area. I'll drive other there just to see for myself and I will see maybe 100 birds if I count the same ones twice as they circle.

When the numbers are inflated it hurts the credibility of our state resources. It costs guys a lot of time and money as they come from out of state to hunt the wonderful birds we don't have.

I went to a special presentation by the KDWP at Jamestown this fall (I think in September) and they gave us all kinds of data. It was sad and funny to hear them tell us how many birds were on the water. Then when we took a tour of the area, even letting us drive in normally restricted areas, there were no birds.

I have lived in Kansas for 5 years now and looking at the data KDWP publishes vs. what I actually see in the field and hear from guys first hand who hunt and farm it just doesn't add up.

It reminds me of the story The Emperor's New Clothes about two weavers who promise an Emperor a new suit of clothes that are invisible to those who are unfit, stupid, or incompetent. When the Emperor parades before his the common folk in his new clothes, a child cries out, "But he isn't wearing anything at all!"

If you want an easy hunt that guarantees a harvest... hunt Deer, Turkey, and furbearers in Kansas. You can hardly go wrong with the sheer numbers we have. You can successfully and consistently harvest other game including upland and migratory birds, just don't get your info. from KDWP. The data is inflated.

Let me end by saying I have the highest respect for what the KDWP stand for. I also have the highest respect for the enforcement officers who put their lives at risk to enforce the law.
 
They drive through the refuge areas and other areas that are easily accessed and glassed from the truck. When they report 5k birds at an area they are most likely reporting the refuge area. Those birds will fly out of the refuge to sit on ponds and fly back to the refuge to roost and will completely avoid the hunting areas.

Our marshes at Perry have been in such bad shape for the past 5 yrs that ducks have conditioned themselves and their young not to stop over here. Thats my belief. Also why would they come through here when they can go 100 miles east into MO and sit on places like Four Rivers where they actually manage for waterfowl.
 
Important to be on the forum all year and hear reports from guys in the field!!!!
 
KDWP publish these things to attract peaple but as blue stated above its better to listen to the locals on here
 
Lots of problems with KDWP right now. Hopefully a new governor can help. Getting Mike Hayden out will be a big plus. We will see. Right now its all about the mighty dollar here. Deer tags are available to anyone who wants one. I think our deer herd is in worse shape than our pheasant population.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Lots of problems with KDWP right now. Hopefully a new governor can help. Getting Mike Hayden out will be a big plus. We will see. Right now its all about the mighty dollar here. Deer tags are available to anyone who wants one. I think our deer herd is in worse shape than our pheasant population.
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Couldn't agree more... something has to change.
 
Mike Hayden used to be the Governor!!! and a good republican, get rid of him, what did you elect! Fat chance.
 
Mike Hayden saw fit to open our pheasant season early which was a disaster. He was the man behind the transferable deer tags which was a complete disaster. Everything he has done has hurt our hunting opportunities. My father-in-law worked over 20 years for the KDWP before retiring. Ask him his opinion of Mike Hayden.
 
Husker we are not talking about deer numbers. We are talking about quality. I have bowhunted in this state since 1984, every year it gets worse.
 
Deer management tends to be a few with extremely high percentage of quality animals, as the herd increases, and hunter numbers collect a preferential numbers of high quality animals, the trophy quality drops, in favor of younger class or inferior bucks because you guys don't kill those! If you want more big bucks.... shoot a hell of a lot more does, and inferior bucks, let the big boys genetically pass on their size and rack quality. States all manage for size of herd and mass public opportunity, more money from more permit sales. Like everything else, you have to make an effort to have trophy opportunities, can't just go out and expect to have opportunites to shoot trophy animals every year, maybe once or twice every ten years, the other years you should shoot does, and give the big bucks a chance to pass it on. By the way, whitetails outcompete mule deer, and are doing it across the west as the whitetail range eats into previous exclusive muley country. ticket to increased monster bucks, is 10 doe permits per year per hunter, after you fill them you get 1 buck permit. make the doe permits about 10.00 each for res. and 50.00 each for non res. buck permit 100.00 for res. and 500.00 for non-res. let Lee and Tiffany, Buckcommander, and Ted Nugent all ballyhoo that! But you will control the numbers, foster a trophy enviornment, welcome the non-res. hunters on these terms, everybody happy!
 
I have seen more big bruiser bucks on the hoof in Kansas over the last two years than I have the previous 8 years combined. The sheer number of deer have exploded as well. I am not sure whether they are managing the herd correctly or not but I have seen some whoppers in areas where I rarely see any deer at all.

If Kansas had shotgun slug hunting only, like we do here in Iowa they would have the biggest baddest bucks in the world.
 
Tpharkman said:
I am not sure whether they are managing the herd correctly or not
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That's a definitive NO. Taking bucks does very little in deer management. Unfortunately, non-residents, AS WELL AS RESIDENTS are usually only interested in shooting a trophy, or a small buck if they fail to find a big one.

If you want to do your part to "manage the herd", take advantage of the $17.50 antlerless tag in the early January bonus season, and fill up your deep freeze with a fat doe. Or better yet, if you fail to find that trophy buck, fill your primary tag with a mature doe instead. Besides, everyone's gonna laugh at your small six-pointer anyway, so you may as well let him go for another year, and put more meat in the freezer.

I believe you can get up to six additional tags on top of your primary, either-sex, any season tag by the way. I'll probably take at least two does in January, and enjoy deer chili throughout the winter, early-spring!
 
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-Wildcat- said:
That's a definitive NO. Taking bucks does very little in deer management. Unfortunately, non-residents, AS WELL AS RESIDENTS are usually only interested in shooting a trophy, or a small buck if they fail to find a big one.

If you want to do your part to "manage the herd", take advantage of the $17.50 antlerless tag in the early January bonus season, and fill up your deep freeze with a fat doe. Or better yet, if you fail to find that trophy buck, fill your primary tag with a mature doe instead. Besides, everyone's gonna laugh at your small six-pointer anyway, so you may as well let him go for another year
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I don't hunt deer in Kansas but I am in total agreement with you on more proper ways to manage the deer herd in states like Iowa and Kansas. I would require each hunter to take whatever the predetermined number of does is before they can have their buck certificate turned into a tag at a local DNR office. Probably not practical to do what we suggest but we know for certain that taking bucks "of any size" over readily available does will always be mismanagement.

I guess people have the right to go after a trophy but they need to fulfill some other harvesting requirements first. We do that in some cities here in Iowa where they have to fill 10 doe tags with a bow to earn the right to go after a wall hanger within the city limits. They should just take the program statewide with a more reasonable doe limit.
 
I've lived and hunted in Kansas since 1972-

when was the first year you were allowed to take a doe-
KDWP did a good job of managing deer- got to be a problem in the unit 19- big bucks and just to many deer- thus the $10.00 doe tags- the problem- not enough hunters

someday someone here will see my shoe box full of pictures- I've shot and arrowed a lot of whitetails- some real nice bucks- so have a couple of others I can name

as far as ducks and upland birds- except for the stocking of turkeys- we've always had decent numbers- good or bad- the KDWP isn't painting a rosy picture just to make out of staters come

sure they are needed- but look at any state

btw- anyone remember "The Boys Club" Southest Kansas they got caught- many out of staters with money came and hunted for trophy Whitetail- it was big scale

it's ok though- if you don't like the way the KDWP operates and think they are trying to fool you- don't come
 
ahhh- could be

halloween would be more fitting- wrap the bearskin arround me and wait till you've had a few to many
 
Shadow said:
KDWP did a good job of managing deer- got to be a problem in the unit 19- big bucks and just to many deer- thus the $10.00 doe tags- the problem- not enough hunters

................... the KDWP isn't painting a rosy picture just to make out of staters come

sure they are needed- but look at any state
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Ive bolded the key word in your quote above. They did a good job when the department was managed by a wildlife biologist and not a crooked politician. Mike Hayden deserves a school yard beat down and Id be glad to throw the first punch at him. As far as your comment about which governor was elected it wouldnt make a difference. Sebelius reappointed the nimrod again. I made darn sure I signed the petition a few years ago to remove him from office, unfortunately I think it fell a few signatures short primarily because I dont think people are aware of the crooked man running the wildlife office.


As far as unit 19 - I wonder why there werent enough hunters? I believe it was mainly due to the fact that folks from KC leased up land, and much of the land was bought up by developers etc thus eliminating most of the hunting opportunities. Theres a reason no one goes out of their way to go to NE Ks to hunt and Im assuming its part of the reason you moved to SW Ks.

Just my .02
 
lots of land owners in the corridor who would allow you to hunt deer
many folks I knew and know only wanted one deer- archery hunter could just about pick their place- I hunted for years just a bit away from a golf course- owners said I could sit in their hottub and kill all the deer that were eating their garden- they really liked the deer- untill they starting leaving their calling in their vegitarian food supply

btw- I moved out here because the wife found a good job to finish her last 4 years- then it's back- and heck- farm life is great

I do miss the deer, ducks, and quail though- sure don't miss the out of control turkey population

oh- I have a freind who is a real good trophy hunter- he's got 30 some nice wall hangers he got within 40 miles of Lawrence
 
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