BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
You are delusional. Reading and rereading your own words hundreds maybe thousands of times
Kansas Trespassing Fee for Private Land
- Thread starter Birdman2
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BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
Bump............
And your contribution to the issue is.........?
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
I don’t have an issue with nonresident hunting
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
I've been on it an evening, you've been on it what 3 weeks. It's not a resident non resident thing. It is what is going to take to keep kdwpt operational. Non residents are a big part of that.
whatsnext
Member
I am an out of state bird hunter who hunts on leased land in Kansas and have been doing so for 8 years. I have not read every post on this thread but it seems like hunting leases and farmers making money is the main concern,So you want the government to limit out of state hunting rights and take away money from Kansas farmers and businesses ? I have felt that as hunters of any game, until we are wiling to support the habitat and access to said habitat none of these problems will get any better no matter how many regulations get thrown at it.
Not the issue at all.
The issue is, Kansas residents are being unfairly deprived of opportunities to hunt in their own state. I've been to a lot of places, worldwide and you will never find more welcoming, generous people than Jayhawks. I can't walk down a country road in KS without every passer by offering a ride (or assistance if that appears to be needed). Try that in your own home state. But. Their generosity is being abused. Not by out of state guests, but by their own bureaucrats.
s.davis
Member
I hate to be the bearer of news Kansans can't stomach but the solution, like the problems, is largely political, and this forum is pleasant in no small part because it's devoid of the political horror show that's allowed elsewhere. But I'll try to minimize the partisan aspects as much as possible while still answering your question:
1. Strictly regulate guiding and leasing.
2. Properly fund your state wildlife agency. Prioritize public access over private profits. Stop electing shills for industry and expecting them to do something besides shill for industries.
3. Hunting is a rural pastime and rural Kansas is dying. The general population is getting older. The hunting population is getting older even more quickly, and older people are dying or not hunting anymore. Meanwhile neither the state nor the hunting community is replacing them with young people, much less young people who hunt. That's not unique to Kansas. In fact, I think even Kansas's non-resident hunting numbers had begun to decline before COVID. That should tell you all you need to know, but the truth is sometimes hard to face. Especially when there's an intellectually lazy way to lay blame at some one else's feet ("OOSers take all OUR birds by deer hunting!"), that simpletons go around cutting and pasting on every internet board they can find. It is especially hard in a place with politics as radical and fringe as Kansas, because the young people who are born there flee the social, cultural and political climate of Kansas to a degree that doesn't happen as badly in moderate to states, even agrarian ones, or states with better functioning economies (and Kansas' economic woes are as much a function of it's radical politics as anything else). Young people who aren't from Kansas recoil in horror at the thought of living there, because everyone in the rest of this country know how far into the fringe Kansas's politics are, and there's not an economic or cultural reason to ignore them. Add to that the fact that there is not an urban area of size or import in Kansas to attract young people, save for the suburbs of a pleasant but not particularly remarkable city in Missouri, nor even a well-funded higher education system to attract them for their college years, and you get to sleep in the bed you all made.
But by all means, make non-residents draw lottery deer tags. I certainly don't object. I've drawn lottery tags in actual big-game hunting destinations (the only game species Kansas is a legitimate destination for are bobwhite and prairie chickens), it's never bothered me in the slightest. I would put in for the a deer draw every year in Kansas because I hunt with a good friend on a his farm that's been in his family since the came from Ireland in the 1850s, and I have enough money to spend some on being sentimental. But it won't make deer hunting in Kansas better, it won't improve access, and it won't reduce leasing or guiding. The only things that will accomplish those tasks are Kansans deciding to prioritize those things politically.
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KSnative
Active member
1. More regulation of guides will provide KS residents improved access? How?2. At last! A point of agreement. KDWPT funding should be "proper". Meaning no longer off-budget and completely without effective oversight. Something is seriously amiss when the Department can turn their back on a fair share of federal PR funds in favor of self-funding via a de facto tax on the sales of KS wildlife - an arrangement that heavily favors sales to non-residents.
3. Again - some agreement (although that may support your conclusion that I am a simpleton). Yes Kansas, like most every other state, is becoming increasingly urban and suburban. Kids can't walk out the back door and go bust a covey anymore. Which is precisely why it is more important than ever for these town kids to have access to relatively nearby hunting (maybe 20-50 miles distant), rather than having no access at all. Unless they are capitalist moneybags than can buy access, in KS or another state.
Perhaps you could elaborate as to what, exactly, you really mean when you state that the "social, cultural and political climate" in KS are driving young people away. Last time I checked, KS had a "progressive" governor of the ilk you appear to favor. Are you suggesting that she and the party she represents are racists, redneck, excessively religious - what, exactly?
Kansans' generous, warm and welcoming culture is among the primary reasons I intend to return there before I die. I wouldn't want you to let facts get in the way of your agenda (although it can sometimes be refreshing to embrace new experiences), but last time I checked there is something of a mass exodus underway from the most urban, politically "woke" states (e.g. CA, NY, VA) to the backwards states (TX, UT, NC, FL). And even more specifically, within the confines of the "woke" states, people are fleeing your fully regulated, "properly managed" cities to the suburbs and exurbs.
NOTE: I cut and pasted this from the KDWP thread, because so many more people are tracking this one - and I think this deserves maximum exposure. S. Davis et al seems to be as much what we are up against, almost as the entrenched KDWPT game sellers.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
It is what is. Residents of Kansas who hunt are unhappy, me included. It isn't going to change regardless of who you email or by a facebook page. It will get worse until the resource finally runs out. I will keep hunting and plugging away for now, til I can't stand it anymore. We needed more people in this fight 26 years ago. That's when I started voicing my opinion. To late now and not worth the effort. Give it up boys.
You seem to have your head screwed on straight, and you may well be right. But just a thought, respectfully. The one certainty is that you won't succeed if you don't even try - winning is about 80% just showing up, often. Instead of quitting - consider changing to more effective strategies. E.g., (not you personally) stop whining and barking at every intentional distraction (its Big Ag, no its Big Chem, no its those danged farmers and ranchers, no it is irrigation farming, no it is ancient politicians, no it is the legislature, etc. etc. etc.).
Who can actually change this, pronto? Your Governor. How? Direct the Commission - and promptly replace any foot draggers.
Who does the Governor work for? Anyone who votes, and no one who doesn't. Let her know that you vote, and that you are essentially a one issue voter. And that you are watching. Couldn't hurt; costs no money and much less time than bird dogging this thread (talking to myself there, not you - but can't vote in KS, so this is all I got!).
I unfortunately agree - but will keep trying. Can't hurt.
You politicize the thread, then complain when I respond with direct, non-political facts. Then dissemble as to the source of the problem, and corrective action. If you can make it appear complicated enough - few will bother to try. So far, so good.
Kansas' Governor, alone, appoints the Commission assigned the task of overseeing the KDWPT, and she alone can direct or replace them. It is the KDWPT that is actively marketing the resource to non-residents, in lieu of applying the effort needed to recover a fair share of PR funds. Ergo, therein lies the fix. Today, right now - without a single new regulation or law to be mangled or manipulated in creation, interpretation or application.
westksbowhunter
Well-known member
Like I said, I was fighting for this cause 26 years ago when they told us it would always be that NR tag allotment would never exceed 5%. Now NR are harvesting about 40% of the whitetails in this state. Some of us actually started before 1995 with the special muzzleloader season and the game tags. Now we have dropped the resident draw, increased NR tags by 30x, included crossbows, lengthened season by 2 months, added several special seasons, any season tags, and wiped out the mule. All through about a dozen governors. And you think they are going to listen!!!!!
With all due respect - I don't doubt for a minute that you have put your shoulder to the wheel long and hard. But how?
I doubt anyone has spoken with the Governor directly to make her aware that this is a serious up/down issue for Kansas voters. Certainly a challenge to get past the palace guard and speak directly with any Governor, anywhere but it can be done. Go to a fund raiser, clear your throat, stand up and speak out.
A weaker, but potentially effective start would be to ask the Commissioners at the next Zoom meeting if the Governor has been made aware that her voting constituents are being hosed, and know it.
Haretrigger
Active member
Single voices don't often get heard. The tough reality is that it's the lobbyists and the wealthy that get to have their voice/message/input heard....and often acted upon.
With one exception......standby
Face it, many of us hunters like to go it alone, or in small groups..we don't get too political about our hunting or fishing and probably spend most of our energy on figuring out how to get drawn for a certain unit....not what politician we need to chat with
Westks is right for the most part.
The exception ? I think there is ample evidence of grass roots movements getting traction and effecting change. There are some that flame out as well...think occupy wall street....and they failed, despite large turnout, due to a total...I mean total...lack of organization.
The kind of changes being discussed here will take place when, and only when, common shareholders ban together in numbers and put real weight to that "voice"...
Imagine a what consolidated sportsman group with tens of thousands of due paying members could do. Example-look at how much influence the NRA has wielded for decades...
It's pretty hard for me to see such a group of hunters get off the ground...hard, but not impossible. Just takes the right people,the right timing, and the right topic. You would like to think that "groups" like PF would be all over this....why arn't they?? Maybe it's time the "forever" groups consolidated and brought some real political weight to the table..in terms of wildlife conservation.
I don't know where they get their money, but out west, The Nature Conservancy (TNC) has bought up tens and tens of thousands of acres.
They allow some hunting, but a game warden told me they don't allow any bird hunting ...wtf ? They appear to be geared to plant and soil conservation, with some outreach to the hunting community.
Maybe thats what PF and QF should be doing ??
Fire away KSnative......
With one exception......standby
Face it, many of us hunters like to go it alone, or in small groups..we don't get too political about our hunting or fishing and probably spend most of our energy on figuring out how to get drawn for a certain unit....not what politician we need to chat with
Westks is right for the most part.
The exception ? I think there is ample evidence of grass roots movements getting traction and effecting change. There are some that flame out as well...think occupy wall street....and they failed, despite large turnout, due to a total...I mean total...lack of organization.
The kind of changes being discussed here will take place when, and only when, common shareholders ban together in numbers and put real weight to that "voice"...
Imagine a what consolidated sportsman group with tens of thousands of due paying members could do. Example-look at how much influence the NRA has wielded for decades...
It's pretty hard for me to see such a group of hunters get off the ground...hard, but not impossible. Just takes the right people,the right timing, and the right topic. You would like to think that "groups" like PF would be all over this....why arn't they?? Maybe it's time the "forever" groups consolidated and brought some real political weight to the table..in terms of wildlife conservation.
I don't know where they get their money, but out west, The Nature Conservancy (TNC) has bought up tens and tens of thousands of acres.
They allow some hunting, but a game warden told me they don't allow any bird hunting ...wtf ? They appear to be geared to plant and soil conservation, with some outreach to the hunting community.
Maybe thats what PF and QF should be doing ??
Fire away KSnative......
The "its too hard and won't work because I'm just one voter " alibi is, in my view, a cop out and an abrogation of our civic duty to make our voices heard with our elected officials. See above under "highly unlikely Governor Kelly even knows her constituents are being treated unfairly".
However. I do fully concur that organized, well funded lobbying groups (like DU) have an easier time gaining the ears of politicians than one-each "mere" voters - there is strength in numbers, and the more so when money is added to the mix. Go for it - I'll be the 2nd member. I would caution, though, against attempting to ride the coat tails of any existing organization - as tempting as that shortcut might be. E.g., nothing against the Nature Conservancy per se - but they are reducing, not increasing land available for public hunting. That is their core mission -preservation, not conservation despite their slightly misleading self-selected organizational title. Even DU and PF actively promote their sports and depend for funds on those willing and able to afford travel and outfitters. Better to direct our time, energy and money to a group that shares and is dedicated first and foremost to our core values - even if you have to build it from the ground up.
Meanwhile, you do a disservice to us all when you attempt to discourage even the few who are willing to stand up for fair treatment for Kansans.
You don't have to "get in their face" - that is juvenile, and usually ineffective. But they need to hear and understand your views. And voting criteria.
Best luck, and I want to be a plank holder in your new "Fairness for All Resident Kansans" organization. Even though I'm not one!
Haretrigger
Active member
For what it's worth...I'm now aware of the ogalalla aquafer.. tons of informative info on it on the web.
Maybe I should contact the governor and have her shut down the pumps....while I've got her on the phone, I'll make sure to get in a word or 2 about the needs of kansas hunters, residents and non-res (me) alike..
Ksnative....you appear well informed and even passionate. I humbly suggest that if you were to back off a wee bit in the lecturing dept, the discussion could stay productive. Otherwise, I see this thread going tits up sooner rather than later.
If you or someone else could provide contact information.i.e., email, phone#, mailing address and the names and titles of the individuals that might? be worth contacting, then I think there a lot of folks looking at this will do as you suggest.
They (and me )just need a little hand holding to get there. It sounds like a fair amount have already fired off an email or 2....so that's a start.
I think more discussion about "who" to contact is important. Not sure the governor is the right focus? Maybe key legislaters that are hunters ? The director of ks Wildlife dept.? Westksbowhunter might have some ideas?
By focusing the individual voices, one might hope to get a roar, not a whisper...agreed?
I would like to think that non resident bird hunters would chime in, provided they had a little more to work with. I.e., whats the plan ?
Despite your stance that this is about fairness to KS residents, it really is about fairness to all who buy a license and want to have at least a shot at some decent public hunting opportunity. What benefits most non resident bird hunters is also going to benefit resident bird hunters..
In the meantime...I wonder how the original poster made out with finding some pay to hunt ground, and if it was any good. Would be nice if he gave us a report....I am curious, because I see things headed more and more in that direction.
Maybe I should contact the governor and have her shut down the pumps....while I've got her on the phone, I'll make sure to get in a word or 2 about the needs of kansas hunters, residents and non-res (me) alike..
Ksnative....you appear well informed and even passionate. I humbly suggest that if you were to back off a wee bit in the lecturing dept, the discussion could stay productive. Otherwise, I see this thread going tits up sooner rather than later.
If you or someone else could provide contact information.i.e., email, phone#, mailing address and the names and titles of the individuals that might? be worth contacting, then I think there a lot of folks looking at this will do as you suggest.
They (and me )just need a little hand holding to get there. It sounds like a fair amount have already fired off an email or 2....so that's a start.
I think more discussion about "who" to contact is important. Not sure the governor is the right focus? Maybe key legislaters that are hunters ? The director of ks Wildlife dept.? Westksbowhunter might have some ideas?
By focusing the individual voices, one might hope to get a roar, not a whisper...agreed?
I would like to think that non resident bird hunters would chime in, provided they had a little more to work with. I.e., whats the plan ?
Despite your stance that this is about fairness to KS residents, it really is about fairness to all who buy a license and want to have at least a shot at some decent public hunting opportunity. What benefits most non resident bird hunters is also going to benefit resident bird hunters..
In the meantime...I wonder how the original poster made out with finding some pay to hunt ground, and if it was any good. Would be nice if he gave us a report....I am curious, because I see things headed more and more in that direction.
BrownDogsCan2
Well-known member
hey while you're at it could you get her to lift the covid restrictions on the bars
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Haretrigger
Active member
No problem...strip joints too ? Sorry, but no lap dances for you until we get this under control...