Just wondering...

[pineridge uplander]

As a 5th generation agricultural family member here in the Nebraska panhandle, who's family has both crops and cattle, I see a few people on here bad mouthing farmers and ranchers at times. My question to those is this, Do you share your views when you go knocking on doors in the fall asking permission to hunt?

 

[captaincoot]

I do the same thing as you PU:thumbsup: If it bothers you that I use PU to shorten name I will write name all out and probably miss spell it How many cattle you running?
I would bet they do not share their views with the ones that are kind enough to share their hunting opportunities with them. I for one will be locking down the kindness alot

 

[wisturkeyhunter]

I don't think anyone was bashing ranchers or farmers as a group on here just the ones that have cattle on public lands.

Personally I haven't seen or been around it enough to know the positive or negatives of the whole thing.

Yes some people act different online and an even bigger reason for hurt feelings is a lot of stuff is taken the wrong way.

 

[1pheas4]

Expressing concern is a good thing. God knows there's some real issues out there that need attention and some real solutions. Nothing good can come about if everyone remains silent and pretends issues/problems aren't real--no matter what the subject.

 

[mnmthunting]

I know that the most pheasants and the best pheasant hunting is on private land.
The management of our public lands, much of it bought by hunter $$$ has gone and is going down the toilet.
This "all native, all natural" is not pheasnt friendly.

I've been in beef cattle business for 40 years, raised many thousands of head.
Cattle ranches (cow/calf) are generally good for wildlife. The diversity of hayland, winter shelter, winter feed, and a large portion of pastureland is VERY wildlife friendly. Pastures almost always contain brushy areas and coulees, always have water sources. Cattle pass on tall course grasses and brush leaving many nesting and security areas.
Most of the time the appearance of overgrazing is caused by drought, not the cattle.
Grass is the life blood of the cattleman, we will take care of it.

 

[pineridge uplander]

I do the same thing as you PU:thumbsup: If it bothers you that I use PU to shorten name I will write name all out and probably miss spell it How many cattle you running?
I would bet they do not share their views with the ones that are kind enough to share their hunting opportunities with them. I for one will be locking down the kindness alot[/QUO

PU is fine. We run between 400-600 pairs. I thought maybe someone would come forward and say they do share that opinion with a farmer or rancher. I guess I am a little shocked that city folk think it's all gravy and govt checks. Also, read a lot about corn being detrimental to pheasants. New equipment might be, I guess the fact that corn prices finally broke $2 a bushel a few years back, now they blame high prices and ethanol for putting land in production. My suggestion would be to buy a section yourself, pay taxes on it and then do with it what you want. If you are going to blame farmers and ranchers for the plight of pheasants, do we get credit for record whitetail numbers, turkey numbers, waterfowl? No industry is perfect, not even the one your involved in! But I know me and my family make an honest living, the old fashioned way.....We earn it!

 

[captaincoot]

That's A good size herd PU. I would raise a lot more but not a lot of grazing ground around here. just 65 cows But I'm looking at raising cow calf pairs in hoop buildings. Looked at some awhile back seems like a good way to do it. Seems to me earning a living becoming a thing of the past. And hard work

 

[captaincoot]

I don't think anyone was bashing ranchers or farmers as a group on here just the ones that have cattle on public lands.

Personally I haven't seen or been around it enough to know the positive or negatives of the whole thing.

Yes some people act different online and an even bigger reason for hurt feelings is a lot of stuff is taken the wrong way.

Seems silly to blame the cattleman. They came to us. Said they would rather have buffalo but it would cost the tax payers a ton of money for fence. and no one has that many buffalo. The native seed companies are the ones that screwed it up they sold them bad seed. You would think 5000 dollars a pound you would get good seed Whos screwing the taxpayers me who pay fair rent or the seed guy?
I know you weren't bad mouthing cattlemen/grain farmers wisturkey just saying we aint to blame.

 

[wisturkeyhunter]

I've got no opinion on the grazing issue and honestly I don't think farmer's should be held to a different standard than anyone else. A lot of people do damage to wildlife for a lot less important reasons than farming.

With that said how have farmer's brought turkey numbers up to where they are now? (Far from record numbers btw)

Turkeys and deer do better with woods and crops not huge corn fields as far as the eye can see. Note I don't think a farmer should be responsible for leaving wildlife cover or anything but why take credit for something like turkeys populations?

 

[1pheas4]

I've got no opinion on the grazing issue and honestly I don't think farmer's should be held to a different standard than anyone else.

It's all good as long as it's limited, timely, and controlled. It can be a very effective tool in enhancing desired habitat.

 

[captaincoot]

I would say farmers have a lot to do with bring turkeys back around here atleast. I farm by the river and I never work the ground by on the hills. turkeys are always there eating. before turkeys were never there. Same with the other pasture I don't farm the ground but the guy that does started the same farming practice turkey there to. They aint no different then humans keep them fat and happy population goes up

 

[oldandnew]

The federal national forests lease grazing, only the USFW service is except. There is a provision to allow eviction of the grazing rights based on range conditions. These decisions are made on the ground by range managers, and biologists, with co-operation with the cattlemen. Cattle are replaced Coot by Buffalo, at the Niobrara Wildlife Refuge outside of Valentine, Ne. I believe that grazing by these animals is beneficial. I believe that back east it would be beneficial in closed woodlots, all infested with ticks, understory, with no grass, predators, only fire will be as satisfying. A good burn, and grazing down, will accelerate annual weeds, legumes, native grass. All equal a good brew for upland game birds. If we do some good with the grazing, rather than let it grow rank, and be valueless..... doesn't seem like a program to be dismissed out of hand. Who knows the cattleman may be in favor of more wildlife areas, adding another voice to help the cause. Cattlemen have always been wary of "sodbusters".

 

[1pheas4]

I would say farmers have a lot to do with bring turkeys back around here atleast. I farm by the river and I never work the ground by on the hills. turkeys are always there eating. before turkeys were never there. Same with the other pasture I don't farm the ground but the guy that does started the same farming practice turkey there to. They aint no different then humans keep them fat and happy population goes up

I think this depends on the area. In Wisturkeyhunter's state of Wisconsin, there's a very healthy turkey population where ag is virtually non-existent. Of course in ag country, turkeys, deer, and everything else "wildlife" depend on willing farmers who leaving some land alone--that is, in habitat. Your example express that (coot).

One other thing comes to mind; after reading any book regarding the establishment of wild ring-neck pheasants (state by state) there's two components to (the ring-neck's) success (success that was often not seen for many years and after many dollars)---
Those components were 1. biologists collecting data and information regarding what works and what doesn't, and 2. willing land owners (with suitable habitat on their land) to help raise and release pheasants donated by the state, paid for by hunters.

 

[captaincoot]

Area Has tons to do with it. We had next to none. My thinking on that was everything was turned black. No food for them all plowed under. Where I raise beans it seems the less I do the bigger the yields get. And that's butt backwards from what I was taught. See the coot can learn
Nice comment oldandnew

 

[wisturkeyhunter]

No matter what state you're in if eastern wild turkeys were gone and are now thriving it's due to reintroduction and protection in the last few decades.

They didn't just fall out of the sky into areas because habitat changed for the better.

 

[SetterNut]

We have huge numbers of turkey in this part of KS. We didn't have many back in the 80's, but we had lots of quail. That habitat did not get "better", it changed. Lots more trees which leads to more turkey and deer, and fewer quail. I would rather have fewer turkey and deer, for more quail.

And that is exactly what I am doing with my habitat, focused on quail.

 

[captaincoot]

You could follow their movement north with the changing of farming practices:thumbsup: And also what helped was when the farmers fire got out of control and burnt the river bottom. Them tree stands need a good fire now and then:thumbsup:

 

[mnmthunting]

We have had two brutal Winters in a row. Heavy snows and cold early and deep snow all the way to April. We had hundreds of turkeys. Now there are few, the ones that survived getting into the silage pile. Mine and some neighbors.
Turkeys multiply fast the flocks will be back. :thumbsup:

 

[pineridge uplander]

I've got no opinion on the grazing issue and honestly I don't think farmer's should be held to a different standard than anyone else. A lot of people do damage to wildlife for a lot less important reasons than farming.

With that said how have farmer's brought turkey numbers up to where they are now? (Far from record numbers btw)

Turkeys and deer do better with woods and crops not huge corn fields as far as the eye can see. Note I don't think a farmer should be responsible for leaving wildlife cover or anything but why take credit for something like turkeys populations?

Where I live in Nebraska, and I am pretty sure where turkeys are present in tough climates, many a rancher or farmer took care of more then a couple of turkeys in their yards thru a vicious winter. I did not say ranchers-farmers deserve entire credit, and I know in Nebraska and surrounding states, turkeys are doing pretty damn well, I know in Nebraska their range is ever increasing. And deer numbers, except for the recent EHD outbreak were at all time highs. I believe agriculture and hunters need to join together to serve this wonderful land we call home, not argue over who is to blame for low bird numbers, better to put that energy to use solving the problem , in my opinion.

 

[Prairie Drifter]

I think many hunters have a variety of misconceptions about what goes on with our wildlife populations and why. As a group, we are far too willing to look for someone or something to blame just as we are bad about looking for a magic pill that will fix everything. This explains why so many of us are suckered into buying this or that food plot seed or this or that surrogator to try and fix a complex problem with a simple solution. Life doesn't work that way!!! Far too many of us are uneducated about what it takes to fulfill any certain game animal throughout their annual cycle. When you aren't producing birds in the nesting season, a food plot in the fall isn't going to help. If you have wheat planted for miles and miles, having a crop failure is going to hurt the production and it won't be because of a "bad" farmer. Just the same, many of our wildlife areas are situated on "marginal" bird habitat but we go there and expect bountiful populations of every species just because there is a sign there that says it's managed for wildlife. Further, as you can read in other threads, folks seem to think that their wildlife department is flush with money and can create a silk purse wildlife area with a sow's ear budget and workforce. Most things in nature respond to the inputs they receive. However, you also have to realize the pressures put on those populations and how that affects the balance. Many heavily used wildlife areas receive 100-1000 times the pressure as adjacent or equivalent private land, yet we go there and expect the cornucopia of bounty!

I recently wrote an article about "Realistic Expectations". I tried to address these things in the article so people coming to my area could at least understand what to expect when they spent a day here. The fact that the signs say wildlife area does not mean that every game species in the state will be found in excess there. The area is bound by its location, its management, its recent climate, its regulations, and it's use. Changes in any of those can cause fluctuations in the productivity of any of the resident species.

The same can be said on the farm. Many farmers do things in rotation. If a crop failure occurs, the rotation can get off and it will affect the productivity on those acres. The same can be said about economic pressures, federal requirements, disease outbreaks, rainfall, snow.........the list goes on and on. I am continually amazed at the folks that call me though they know we've been in a severe drought for parts of 4 years expecting to hear that the cornucopia of game is overflowing! Get a clue folks, things can't stay at the top forever! Normal evolution is toward a "climax" community. Most of our game species don't thrive in a climax community! Disturbance is a reality of nature and both our habitats and our game species are adapted to it. It takes disturbance to keep a productive grassland productive. It takes a disturbance to keep basal cover in an aging woodland. Hell, it takes a big disturbance to get a crop in the ground! I don't know of many habitat types where continued rest is beneficial!!!

Things are relative. I could do great things for wildlife if I had the money, manpower, and time to get what needs to be done done. Just like most farmers and ranchers, in my job there are many competing demands on my time and budget. Government thinks that I can always do more with less. That's crap! The unfortunate part in government is that often the peripheral "needs" often override the "core" needs. Pisses me off when I miss a perfect burn day because I'm inside doing mandatory training. That's just part of the path we have to take. Everybody, go and talk to your farmers, ranchers, and wildlife managers to see what their vision is and if there is a place where you can fill a niche in making that a success! Pretty damn easy to sit on the sidelines and bitch!!! The farmer will ask you where you were when he was laying on the scalding hot engine of his equipment in the 103 degree sun on Sunday when he was broke down and trying to get the crop in before the rain came. The wildlife manager will ask you where you were when he was cleaning up the blood and brains on his jetty from the suicide on Friday when he could have been accomplishing a valuable habitat project. The cattleman will ask you where you were when he was plowing through 4 feet of snow to feed his cattle Sunday morning before church when it was -23. We all have a job to do and there is always more to get done than there is time, money, and people to do it.