Just can't win

P

PeteRevvv

Active member
OK, I can, but I can't.

We go to the Mellette, SD volunteer fireman's banquet every pheasant opener. Tickets are $100 and 1 in 10 tickets win a gun. Won a Remington 1187 synthetic 12ga auto in my 5th year buying a ticket in 2015. Started jamming after 50 shells and never stopped no matter what I tried over a couple years. 2 years later, I won another 1187 but 20 ga wood- beat the odds getting the same gun and winning 2 in 7 years.

I was tired of all the jamming and decided to make a move. A Remington dealer was happy to take the used jamming gun and new in the box on an upgrade to another Remington so I threw in a couple hundred extra and got the Versamax Waterfowl Pro. Started jamming after 50 shells and never stopped despite cleanings, cycling the action to break it in, Wolf XP+ replacement springs, deburring magazine pickup, etc. This started just before the Remington bankruptcy and I endured years trying to fix it and waiting for warranty work to resume.

I liked the idea of the heritage and traditional American brand and I wanted to stick with them so I wondered what they were doing about warranty work again. Apparently the new Remington Arms Co, LLC also appreciates their heritage and pastes their 1826 pedigree all over their website, merch and list their history of all their guns they made for 200 years. How about the long standing tradition of the rock solid warranty- nope. "You have to understand that were a new company now so we don't honor any guns before 2020." And by the way, "we are an outside repair company JPE that is responding to this inquiry" so we can't help you any further. So much for the hyped up heritage and pedigree of the Ilion, NY factory and lifetime warranty.

My dad has as good a luck as me but better gun sense. He won a Winchester SXP 12ga pump at a local banquet. I knew I needed a second gun for when the Versamax inevitably decided to take the rest of the hunt off so he was happy to let me "borrow" it off him. I had carefully prepped the SXP according the Winchester new gun setup. The Versamax decided it had enough about 2 hours into the first day but then but 50 shells into the SXP, I started getting the pump action locking up. I just can't win.

I know your older Remingtons are never fail guns and I know you have some from the same Cerberus era that were fine but I just can't win with them. I had a spark of hope in another American traditional gun maker with the Winchester but it's no fun to hunt alongside a Beretta auto and Mossberg pump that just keep running through box after box of shells whether its the Federal PS, gas station Dakotas Best or hastily made hand reloads.

I'm not going to unload a dubious Versamax on an unsuspecting buyer so I'm stuck with it for a while. I'm going to try a nearby authorized repair shop, Alhmans in Morristown, MN. Maybe they are magicians and I'll come out of it with a decent operating gun but going forward, I'm making changes in my thinking about gun brands.
 
Idk what it is about Remington's that seems to be jammers. At least I hear about them jamming a lot. My dad had a Remington auto deer rifle that he got rid of a few years ago that jammed at times. When he traded it in for a new Browning X-Bolt, the dealer told him if it had been a slightly different model, they wouldn't have taken it for free. Apparently this similar model was plagued with jamming issues.

My cousin also had an 1187 that jammed so much he got rid of it also.

I'm a big proponent of Brownings. I've never had an issue with any of mine, pumps or autos.
 
Pete, what are you shooting for shells that you continually have jamming issues? Seems if you have the problem with different guns it might be more the shells fault than the gun. BTW, I had a Remington 1187 12 ga. for many years and never had a jam. You did have to keep it clean especially in extremely cold weather. But I found that Break Free CLP solved the cold weather issue. Go buy a new Browning A5 or anyone of the Benelli autoloaders and you will solve your problem.
 
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Have shot 1100s most of my life either hunting or shooting competitively in college and had no issues with jamming on target or hi brass. Intersting issue and unfortunate Remington didnt stand behind their products.
 
Miforester said:
Have shot 1100s most of my life either hunting or shooting competitively in college and had no issues with jamming on target or hi brass. Intersting issue and unfortunate Remington didnt stand behind their products.
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Sound like you need to blow the dust off of some of those doubles you got! 😁
 
I have owned an older 1100 and an older 1187 and have had very few problems but I would think that Remington would stand behind their products.
 
Another happy 11-87 shooter here. Makes me wonder if you are getting the gas system parts assembled correctly.
 
When he is having the same jamming problem even with a pump gun then something just doesn't add up. It's either the shells or "Operator Error".
 
I started shooting trap with an 11-87 with a Timney trigger group. I was on several teams at two trap clubs and shot some ATAs. It was a flawess as a trap work horse and ran all reloads. Keep clean and replace rings. Mine had really nice wood also, a plus.
 
PeteRevvv said:
OK, I can, but I can't.

We go to the Mellette, SD volunteer fireman's banquet every pheasant opener. Tickets are $100 and 1 in 10 tickets win a gun. Won a Remington 1187 synthetic 12ga auto in my 5th year buying a ticket in 2015. Started jamming after 50 shells and never stopped no matter what I tried over a couple years. 2 years later, I won another 1187 but 20 ga wood- beat the odds getting the same gun and winning 2 in 7 years.

I was tired of all the jamming and decided to make a move. A Remington dealer was happy to take the used jamming gun and new in the box on an upgrade to another Remington so I threw in a couple hundred extra and got the Versamax Waterfowl Pro. Started jamming after 50 shells and never stopped despite cleanings, cycling the action to break it in, Wolf XP+ replacement springs, deburring magazine pickup, etc. This started just before the Remington bankruptcy and I endured years trying to fix it and waiting for warranty work to resume.

I liked the idea of the heritage and traditional American brand and I wanted to stick with them so I wondered what they were doing about warranty work again. Apparently the new Remington Arms Co, LLC also appreciates their heritage and pastes their 1826 pedigree all over their website, merch and list their history of all their guns they made for 200 years. How about the long standing tradition of the rock solid warranty- nope. "You have to understand that were a new company now so we don't honor any guns before 2020." And by the way, "we are an outside repair company JPE that is responding to this inquiry" so we can't help you any further. So much for the hyped up heritage and pedigree of the Ilion, NY factory and lifetime warranty.

My dad has as good a luck as me but better gun sense. He won a Winchester SXP 12ga pump at a local banquet. I knew I needed a second gun for when the Versamax inevitably decided to take the rest of the hunt off so he was happy to let me "borrow" it off him. I had carefully prepped the SXP according the Winchester new gun setup. The Versamax decided it had enough about 2 hours into the first day but then but 50 shells into the SXP, I started getting the pump action locking up. I just can't win.

I know your older Remingtons are never fail guns and I know you have some from the same Cerberus era that were fine but I just can't win with them. I had a spark of hope in another American traditional gun maker with the Winchester but it's no fun to hunt alongside a Beretta auto and Mossberg pump that just keep running through box after box of shells whether its the Federal PS, gas station Dakotas Best or hastily made hand reloads.

I'm not going to unload a dubious Versamax on an unsuspecting buyer so I'm stuck with it for a while. I'm going to try a nearby authorized repair shop, Alhmans in Morristown, MN. Maybe they are magicians and I'll come out of it with a decent operating gun but going forward, I'm making changes in my thinking about gun brands.
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I have never had one bit of trouble with any Remington gun in 50 years.
 
I've done a lot of reading since I've been on my own to figure out fixes without the factory warranty support. I think the Remington troubles are limited to the years they were owned by an non-industry investors group, Cerberus. This would be 2007-2020. They had the most serious financial troubles from 2015-2020 and I see a lot of forum complaints for guns in these years in particular. They were cutting corners where they could and guns came out with parts that would normally be in the reject bin and entire lines would often skip deburring processes. Now they are owned by former gun execs from other companies and moved to GA where they will have a number of years to produce quality before they are again sued out of existence like they were in NY.

So I completely agree with everyone that Remingtons are a great gun that never jams; they are third-rate guns with more jams than a tik-tok teen on Adderall; and they are a second rate manufacturer getting better every year- all at the same time. Depends on if you bought the gun from 1816-2015, 2015-2020 or 2021-present. I believe there are a number of forum members that bought theirs directly from Eliphalet himself and can attest to never having jams from 1816 forward.

My primary loads are Federal Prairie Storms which are the dirtiest producing shells you can run. I also throw my gun down into dirty ditches after every bird while I run after them. However I've done different years with reloads that are Hodgson Longshot, Browning BDX (cause they were cheap) and Fiocchi (won a bunch at a banquet). All of these were shot side by side with a Beretta Xtrema being treated and cleaned the same way. Beretta jams-0, Remington jams-Bazillion. It shouldn't matter what shells you run or how much you baby it if your gun is quality engineering.

There's just a hitch in the giddy-yup of my Versamax towards the back of the action motion. I did a full tear down and cleanup every day after pheasant hunting and it was still the same. I tried a Wolf XP+ spring and that got it moving forward more reliably but then the shell pickup was out of time. So now it's in the hands of one of the two factory recommended gunsmiths- Ahlmans near Fairbault, MN. Neat little place out in the countryside with a redneck cabelas motif which was a fun little side trip on a warm Thanksgiving weekend.
 
My dad had a Remington 1100 that jammed a lot and needed cleaning constantly. I shot a Browning Gold semiauto for years and it occasionally would jam and needed cleaning. I have switched to Benelli semiautos they are inertia driven and have been flawless. The cleanest shooting semiauto I have ever seen, highly recommend them and wouldn't go back to what I used to shoot ever again.
 
I've been patiently waiting for the diagnosis from the gunsmith to come back on my Versamax. Despite my new found disgust with American traditional brands, I've had a strange attraction to the Winchester models with the ribbed pump forearm that I can't shake. I've been trying to figure out why and I think now I know why my subconscious keeps hounding me- the WWII era Model 12 pump trench gun. I think I've found something made just for me and my ways-


Truck, riot, trench- say no more. Except maybe bayonet attachment. No more bending over and trying to pounce on those runners. A reliable retrieve and field dressing all in one quick, stabby motion.
 
Bird Buster said:
My dad had a Remington 1100 that jammed a lot and needed cleaning constantly. I shot a Browning Gold semiauto for years and it occasionally would jam and needed cleaning. I have switched to Benelli semiautos they are inertia driven and have been flawless. The cleanest shooting semiauto I have ever seen, highly recommend them and wouldn't go back to what I used to shoot ever again.
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My father also has an 1100, he used to shoot birds like I do today, the gun has more than a couple miles on it. I have never seen it malfunction and he has never mentioned it malfunctioning. If I had to bet whether the trigger group has ever been out of the gun or not, I would go with "it has not been out". It is a 2 and 3/4" receiver. I do know a fella with a 3" 1100 that was always needing to clean the gas ports for him to shoot milder 2 and 3/4 loads without problems. Don't look now, but there is a thread here now with a member fighting an M2. I have a friend that bought a SX3 cheap, that the owner was feed-up with. It seems all the manufactures all have a couple units that sneak out, that seem to want to go the wrong-way down the road.

Love your signature line, a PF lifer!!!
 
PeteRevvv said:
I've had a strange attraction to the Winchester models with the ribbed pump forearm that I can't shake. I've been trying to figure out why and I think now I know why my subconscious keeps hounding me- the WWII era Model 12 pump trench gun. I think I've found something made just for me and my ways-


Truck, riot, trench- say no more. Except maybe bayonet attachment. No more bending over and trying to pounce on those runners. A reliable retrieve and field dressing all in one quick, stabby motion.
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I have an actual Winchester 1897 riot gun I could let you have for a lot less than they are asking for that .....um ..... modified thing.

It's in used but really good shape. It has accounted for quite a few pheasant back in the early 70s. Had a lot of fun with this back then.

<Edit> On second thought, I don't think I could part with it! Too many memories.</edit>

1670372605565.png
 
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Model 12's are probably the best pump followed by the 870 in my opinion. Loved shooting the model 12!
 
Beautiful guns! Just wonderful. I've still got my first shotgun, a Winchester 1897 30in, full, made in ?1937?. I got it in 1964 for $40 and used it exclusively until I picked up my AYA sxs.

But looking at these guns, and the price tags implied or shown, I gotta think if you ever used one for personal defense, it might be held as police evidence for .... well.... years.

My riot gun was a PS/DS Ithaca 37 that I posted on this forum recently. I sent it on for use as a slug gun for deer down in Indiana.


But...if I wanted a riot gun for the house, I'd use a Maverick, if only for the difference in price and the possibility that I'd lose the gun to evidence for a substantial amount of time.

But I sure hope I'm in a different income bracket than most. If one could afford one of these guns, I wouldn't risk using it for home defense.

Beautiful.

Be well.
 
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