Is there the perfect gun?

After reading your comment last Friday, it just kind of sat in the back of my brain... I want to share some of my story with you and maybe you will see similarities to your own situation. If it upsets you, please accept my apology, that was never my intention.

I'm a very intensely competitve guy. Not an olympian, or even a league champion, but very intensely competitive nontheless. I HAVE to beat the guys I'm playing against, regardless of what we are doing, and I ALWAYS keep score...

About 3 years ago my dad got really ill. At first it was shingles, but then kidney problems came, and nerve problems. He was in tremendous pain and could hardly walk even short distances. He's since recovered somewhat, but can still only walk short distances and needs braces on his legs. He has always been healthy, strong, and proud, but now he needs help to do many of the things he used to do easily. At first he expected he would heal quickly because he always had before. Then he got frustrated and wondered how long it would take, and now I suspect he has realized that he will have to accept some limitations for the rest of his life.

We used to shoot sporting clays together once a month, and fish quite often. I have asked him for years to come hunting with me in western KS, but the dates never worked out or something came up. He had been asking me for years to go back with him to his hometown in SD, and hunt where he grew up but we never made it work for one reason or another. Kids, jobs, no $$, you know how it is...

He doesn't talk about a South Dakota trip anymore, and gets frustrated and angry whenever I ask him to go hunting with me in KS. He thinks he would be a burden to me and my friends, and would ruin the fun. I tell him that I have a plan of places he could block for us, and wouldn't need to walk hardly at all, but he just gets upset that he needs special accomodations and focuses on what he can't do anymore.

Anyway, my point is that there is nothing that Dad or I can do to change his situation. It is what it is... But I really wish he would get over his stubbornness and pride and let me help him. I wish he could see that I give him the assistance I do because I love and respect him and not because I pity him. And I wish he would get out of the house and do some of the things we used to do.

From an intensely competitive son's perspective, I would just love to have dad with me. I don't care a bit about who does all the walking and who does all the blocking. I don't care a bit if I make an extra trip or two to the truck so I can carry all his fishing gear to the boat for him, in fact it's an honor to do it. If I could get him back to the sporting clays range, I would carry his gun or push him in a wheelchair or throw him over my damn shoulder and carry him if it meant that we got to spend the afternoon together. And I sure as hell wouldn't care what the score was when we were done... And I'm a guy who ALWAYS keeps score.

Some things in life are just more important than keeping score. Sometimes walking the most fields, shooting the most birds, breaking the most targets, or catching the most fish, isn't that important. Just being in the fields, at the ranges, and lakes with the people you love is what counts.

If any of that relates to you or not, I don't know. But I thought you might like to know from a "WE MUST WIN OR ELSE" son's perspective, that sometimes, just being there IS winning. :cheers:

Great post Toad! My dad is now on oxygen all the time and cannot hunt or fish with me anymore. All I can do for him now is call him and talk about my latest trip I have been on or am planning. He lives that way through the pictures I can paint for his minds eye. Now I am concentrating on making those memories special with my kids. Taking them hunting with me. Giving them those opportunities to make memories. Someday we will be on the other end of this equation, our job is to be gracious and optimistic with those who still desire to spend time with us! Happy hunting.
 
I gather you're talking about clay targets, trap or skeet.

First of all, let me tell you what you already know:

1. You already know how to break every target.

2. You miss because you don't do what you know to do.

3. It's not the gun; it's not your physical ability; it's not your eyesight.

4. Get your head right, and the targets will break.

I'll give you an example - I shot skeet for about 5 years in the late 1970s, an average club shooter, then quit for 30 years, in fact quit shooting altogether.

About 5 years ago I decided to try skeet again, and I've been shooting with two other guys my age (early 70s). We all shoot about equally well, typical old duffers, about 85-90%.

A couple months ago I injured my back and laid off shooting for a couple months. Two weeks ago I decided I'd healed enough, and met my two buddies at the club. With them was a guy I didn't know. One of my friends whispered to me, "Watch this guy, he's fantastic, eight time state champion."

"Hmmmmm", I thought, "Way out of my league, but what the heck, let me concentrate on what I know how to do, and see how long I can stay with the great champ."

So the four of us shot a round. I was shooting 3rd, and the champ 4th.

The other two guys dropped a target or two early, but I missed none on the first four stations, and the champ was smokin' them right behind me.

On station 5 I missed the high house target. Rode it too far and knew what I'd done wrong before I pulled the trigger.

"Dang", I thought, "that didn't last long."

Then the great champ made the same mistake I had, and missed high 5 too. Amazing. What was even more amazing is that he missed it twice.

I ran out the rest and beat the great champ 24 to 23.

What's the lesson? Twofold. I did what I know how to do, 24/25, and the champ did what he knows to do 23/25.

It really is all in your head. When I have my head screwed on straight, I can shoot good scores left-handed, and I can shoot good scores without my prescription glasses - 20/200 vision.

And when I don't do what I know how to do, my scores stink.

I'll bet you're the same.

As they say, "It ain't the arrows, It's the Indian."

I shot in the 20's all season once I got my head on straight. Still no perfect scores thought. I'm happy I picked up my game. I'm also happy the season is over. Starts to become a job after all summer.

There are days when you know you shouldn't be shooting league scores. Your just not on your game and you know it before you ever get started on that day.

Onpoint
 
When thinking about "just the right gun" for skeet, trap, upland birds or waterfowl, consider this -

Many years ago Fred Missildine was a Winchester factory shooter who traveled around the country demonstrating Winchester products.

He participated in skeet and trap tournaments, and was a frequent winner against the best in the country. In those years Winchester had neither a semi-auto or an O/U in their product line, so Fred shot M12 pumps at skeet and a M21 SxS at trap singles and doubles.

Not the "right" guns for those games, but Fred won lots of trophies anyway.

"It's not the arrows, it's the Indian."
 
When thinking about "just the right gun" for skeet, trap, upland birds or waterfowl, consider this -

Many years ago Fred Missildine was a Winchester factory shooter who traveled around the country demonstrating Winchester products.

He participated in skeet and trap tournaments, and was a frequent winner against the best in the country. In those years Winchester had neither a semi-auto or an O/U in their product line, so Fred shot M12 pumps at skeet and a M21 SxS at trap singles and doubles.

Not the "right" guns for those games, but Fred won lots of trophies anyway.

"It's not the arrows, it's the Indian."

Your 100% right. The top shooter with the most perfect scores last year at the club was a 18 year old kid with a 500 Mossberg pump that has many, many miles on it. This year, a guy on our team who's shooting a Rem 870 Trap. It doesn't hurt to have a pretty gun though. They can win too. I thought about digging my old M12 12ga 30" full solid rib pump gun out though...LOL
 
Handicap Trap has a back fence of 27 yards.
That 27 yard line was added because of one man dominating shorter yardages...Arnold Reiger.
Reiger began with and set many records with a plain-Jane Winchester Model 37 single, same as many of us began shooting squirrels....before he moved on to a borrowed gun, I believe, and became an even larger legend with a Winchester Model 12.

There are individuals that have the ability to do well with any scattergun at any game.
While the shooter is always strongest at the reins, for most of us, there are particulars of any scattergun that will help us shoot and learn to shoot....better.
An Indian will benefit from the straightest arrow.
 
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Perfect gun

The perfect gun is that which you are comfortable shooting. I do feel that success in trap will come easier if a gun designed for such is used. In the field one designed for your type of hunting situation will allow you to have success. I enjoy shooting targets be it game or clays. I will shoot most any gun that is available since I like to shoot but I feel best when that gun fits me and is one set up for that sport. *
Some times it is enjoyable to watch another shoot especially if it is a grandson or granddaughter. *I also obtain pleasure watching young people have a good time shooting especially when that gun seems to be an extension of their body.
 
Your 100% right. The top shooter with the most perfect scores last year at the club was a 18 year old kid with a 500 Mossberg pump that has many, many miles on it. This year, a guy on our team who's shooting a Rem 870 Trap. It doesn't hurt to have a pretty gun though. They can win too. I thought about digging my old M12 12ga 30" full solid rib pump gun out though...LOL

I'd be willing to bet more trap targets have been broken with M12s than any other gun. I've seen M12s with 250K rounds through them, still shooting fine.

There was a time when the single shot guns, BT99 etc became very popular, but now I see mostly Italian and German OUs. A few of the older shooters still love their M12s. Last summer I watched one of them, he must have been 80, smoke 100x100 with his.

Yes, pretty guns are nice. I'd love to have a high grade Kreighoff...you know, the kind that cost as much as a small house.

Krieghoff-32-cased.jpg
 
I'd be willing to bet more trap targets have been broken with M12s than any other gun. I've seen M12s with 250K rounds through them, still shooting fine.

There was a time when the single shot guns, BT99 etc became very popular, but now I see mostly Italian and German OUs. A few of the older shooters still love their M12s. Last summer I watched one of them, he must have been 80, smoke 100x100 with his.

Yes, pretty guns are nice. I'd love to have a high grade Kreighoff...you know, the kind that cost as much as a small house.

Krieghoff-32-cased.jpg

You have good taste Sir...A nice K80 would fill my dreams for sure. :thumbsup:

and I agree on the model 12's..one hellofa gun..I have two myself.
 
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I owned a Kriegoff for a whle, a four barrel skeet set with a Don Carry comb on it.
hated the danged thing.
I shot good scores wit , but no higher than any of my guns costing far less, and I didn't enjoy it when I did clean a round.
I much prefer my vintage guns when shooting , and for me that's the main thing.
if I were to get into registered birds again I dunno what I'd shoot, but it wouldn't be a Kgun!
DT
 
I owned a Kriegoff for a whle, a four barrel skeet set with a Don Carry comb on it.
hated the danged thing.
I shot good scores wit , but no higher than any of my guns costing far less, and I didn't enjoy it when I did clean a round.
I much prefer my vintage guns when shooting , and for me that's the main thing.
if I were to get into registered birds again I dunno what I'd shoot, but it wouldn't be a Kgun!
DT

Your probably 100% correct. I like vintage guns as well. Model 12's, Superposed, A5, 37 Ithaca, even the 97 Winchester. It's fun shooting these legends of guns.
 
I shot three different mo rib on it del 12's regularly over the years and one 870 skeet gun that was a fine piece.:)
The one 12 had a Cutts and Simmons rib on it that was installed when my father owned it.
great gun!:D
I've shot competition black powder trap with a '97 for a bit and did quite well with it , but I much prefer SXS guns with hammers.:D
DT
 
I talk to my gun shop friend yesterday and he says he has a beautiful 1973 Model 12 trap gun that he just bought from a estate sale. He says the wood is gorgeous with 30" vent rib barrel. I think my little Benelli Montefelto 20 is going to have to go bye, bye...He has it hold for me.
 
Model 12 Trap

I used a model 12 trap from 1960 until 1988. I enjoyed shooting it and still have it. My wife gave me a Remington model 3200 for our 25th anniversary which I shot until recently. It is a great gun. I now shoot a Browning BT 99.

If my memory is correct 1972 began a new production of Model 12's. It continued until about 1979. Those models had a serial # starting with Y .
I believe they were made in Japan.

The Model 12 started in 1912 hence the model 12 name. It was produced until 1963. A "clean up" production was started in 1964-66. That production ended with SERIAL #1970875.
 
I shoot a Remington 870 wingmaster supermag for pretty much everything. For me it's the perfect gun. At 7ish pounds it's light enough for me to carry all day, and with the 28 inch light contour barrel it's balanced about right. 3.5 inch chamber for geese or coyotes if I'm so inclined.

Also a pump is all I can see my shooting. I see to many auto's having issues no matter what their owners say.

I shoot mostly sporting clays instead of trap and have done a few registered shoots with it and the last one I did I shot well enough to get plenty of compliments and also ran a couple stations that most everyone was struggling with. I won't win a national championship with it but I wouldn't with a perazzi either...
 
I used a model 12 trap from 1960 until 1988. I enjoyed shooting it and still have it. My wife gave me a Remington model 3200 for our 25th anniversary which I shot until recently. It is a great gun. I now shoot a Browning BT 99.

If my memory is correct 1972 began a new production of Model 12's. It continued until about 1979. Those models had a serial # starting with Y .
I believe they were made in Japan.

I understand the gun shop had bought several other guns from this man and he did not want to sell this gun. Sad news, he had a stroke and decided to let it go. I feel so bad for him, letting go of something he loved and cherished so much. He should rest easy, it went to a good home that will take care of it like few others would. I hope some how he is able to know that fact. Prayers to him that he recovers best he can from his challenge that our maker has put before him.

The Model 12 started in 1912 hence the model 12 name. It was produced until 1963. A "clean up" production was started in 1964-66. That production ended with SERIAL #1970875.

It is a Y gun...one owner...he may have shot a couple of rounds with it, if that. It came with the box and the hanging tags. Not perfect but in damn fine shape. I can buy another Benelli 20ga anytime but not a nice model 12 trap like this. The gun is near new.
 
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I talk to my gun shop friend yesterday and he says he has a beautiful 1973 Model 12 trap gun that he just bought from a estate sale. He says the wood is gorgeous with 30" vent rib barrel. I think my little Benelli Montefelto 20 is going to have to go bye, bye...He has it hold for me.

The post-1963 M12s are a different animal from the 1912-63 M12s, all of which were hand assembled and fitted. Not saying the '64-on guns aren't okay, but they don't get the respect of the early ones.

A really nice pre '64 gun will bring more money than any '64-on gun. Just sayin'.

If I were going to take up trap, I think I'd look for a nice Beretta.

But I'm not gong to take up trap.......
 
The post-1963 M12s are a different animal from the 1912-63 M12s, all of which were hand assembled and fitted. Not saying the '64-on guns aren't okay, but they don't get the respect of the early ones.

A really nice pre '64 gun will bring more money than any '64-on gun. Just sayin'.

If I were going to take up trap, I think I'd look for a nice Beretta.

But I'm not gong to take up trap.......

I have three model 12's, two pre 64's and this new to me very clean "73" vintage. It came with the box and the hanging tags. I bet it hasn't shot more then a couple of boxes of shells.

I shot a Beretta O/U for Trap for the last year and a half. I shoot it pretty fair...in the 20's consistently.
 
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