Is SD shooting itself in the foot?

[Redmoose]

Why not get volunteers to drive the routes and paid them .65 cent a mile. 110 routes @ 30 miles run 4 times comes out to about $8580 dollars. In Utah they use volunteers for spraying weeds at Wildlife manager areas, Urban goose round-up, reseeding deer winter range, buffalo round-up on antelope island and many other projects, they get dedicated hunters hours for their time
. It's really hard to believe they spend $700,000 dollars for that and if they are it's miss management of funds

 

[benelli-banger]

as far as the gfp "not saving the 700k", well, in a way, that may be true...they probably don't contract extra workers to do this...maybe they had to pay the mailmen that did some of the counting? Not sure...bottom line, it wasn't totally about the $...they probably felt the survey results wouldn't result in NR hunters lining up to come to SD based on the bird count! Not sure...they had thousands of hunters sitting on the edge of their seats every late August waiting for the survey...double edged sword, I suppose...bottom line, it should be like a weather report...tell me the facts, tell me the truth, let me decide what I will do with the info...

 

[Brule]

Based upon the article on the U-Guide website published on June 6th, the price for the survey is $80k-$90k, not $700k. The marketing budget is $700k per year for the next three years. It would be nice if they put those dollars into habitat. The marketing folks don't want the survey since it can mess up their efforts if the brood count is down. My thought it ask the local conservation groups like Pheasants Forever to take up the surveys. They get a lot of money from non-residents attending the banquets they host just prior to and during pheasant season. PF has a lot of biologists who can provide guidance on the survey methodology. I'm sure their members would like to know the count as much as anyone. As far as marketing is concerned, the money should come from the tourism department. The marketing people will just produce unicorn and rainbow based copy. I don't need any more in-your-face marketing messages. Since GF&P has my address, I'm sure I'll be getting nothing but that.

 

[dakotasj]

Based upon the article on the U-Guide website published on June 6th, the price for the survey is $80k-$90k, not $700k. The marketing budget is $700k per year for the next three years. It would be nice if they put those dollars into habitat. The marketing folks don't want the survey since it can mess up their efforts if the brood count is down. My thought it ask the local conservation groups like Pheasants Forever to take up the surveys. They get a lot of money from non-residents attending the banquets they host just prior to and during pheasant season. PF has a lot of biologists who can provide guidance on the survey methodology. I'm sure their members would like to know the count as much as anyone. As far as marketing is concerned, the money should come from the tourism department. The marketing people will just produce unicorn and rainbow based copy. I don't need any more in-your-face marketing messages. Since GF&P has my address, I'm sure I'll be getting nothing but that.

I like the idea of PF doing surveys.

 

[hunterofbirds]

The best survey comes from this forum minus the intentional misinformation posted by a select few . Like most, I make the long trek to SD for the blessings this wonderful land has to offer - if only my wife would agree to move!!!

 

[benelli-banger]

Based upon the article on the U-Guide website published on June 6th, the price for the survey is $80k-$90k, not $700k. The marketing budget is $700k per year for the next three years. It would be nice if they put those dollars into habitat. The marketing folks don't want the survey since it can mess up their efforts if the brood count is down. My thought it ask the local conservation groups like Pheasants Forever to take up the surveys. They get a lot of money from non-residents attending the banquets they host just prior to and during pheasant season. PF has a lot of biologists who can provide guidance on the survey methodology. I'm sure their members would like to know the count as much as anyone. As far as marketing is concerned, the money should come from the tourism department. The marketing people will just produce unicorn and rainbow based copy. I don't need any more in-your-face marketing messages. Since GF&P has my address, I'm sure I'll be getting nothing but that.

nice work picking up the 80-90k on the price of the surveys...makes it even more of a shame that they are being canceled...$1 per NR license would have covered it...I would have kicked in my buck!!!!

 

[Brule]

Thanks. I agree it's a shame to stop the surveys. The information is useful. I also check crop progress reports to see if the crop goes in late along with harvest reports. This year is looking better from a planting perspective and it looks like they had enough moisture to sustain a normal insect population. It's only July, so we'll wait it out.

 

[Alaskan swamp collies]

Good pickup Brule. It seems the bottom line is they don't want hunters seeing the column that shows how much the birds are down from the 10 year average. It's easier and cheaper to advertise than to fix the underlying problem. If there were numbers like there was when CRP first started there would be no problem getting hunters to show up.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

If there were numbers like there was when CRP first started there would be no problem getting hunters to show up.

FYI, CRP started in the 80's. It took about 10 years to see a real noticeable difference in bird numbers & about 20 years to peak at almost 12,000,000 birds before starting to decline again. However, 2018 had over 7,000,000 birds. I'm guessing last year there were somewhat fewer (although not NEAR as bad as the brood report made it sound) & that this year we'll be back in the 7-8 million range. Really the only years that were better than that were 2003-2010.....and not by huge leaps & bounds. Bird numbers help bring hunters, yes. But they haven't really been the issue. By & large (with local exceptions), the birds have been there. The issues, as I see them, have been easy access to hunting spots and advertised "lower" numbers in the brood report. And....Youtube. Youtube videos of these guys on preserves seeing thousands of roosters w/ big holes in their beaks (& not knowing the difference) & shooting the crap out of them. When the next guys come here, hunt public land, & it's not like they see on Youtube, they get discouraged. So many are inexperienced hunters & quite frankly shouldn't expect to see many birds unless they luck out or have a guide.

 

[Alaskan swamp collies]

FYI, CRP started in the 80's. It took about 10 years to see a real noticeable difference in bird numbers & about 20 years to peak at almost 12,000,000 birds before starting to decline again. However, 2018 had over 7,000,000 birds. I'm guessing last year there were somewhat fewer (although not NEAR as bad as the brood report made it sound) & that this year we'll be back in the 7-8 million range. Really the only years that were better than that were 2003-2010.....and not by huge leaps & bounds. Bird numbers help bring hunters, yes. But they haven't really been the issue. By & large (with local exceptions), the birds have been there. The issues, as I see them, have been easy access to hunting spots and advertised "lower" numbers in the brood report. And....Youtube. Youtube videos of these guys on preserves seeing thousands of roosters w/ big holes in their beaks (& not knowing the difference) & shooting the crap out of them. When the next guys come here, hunt public land, & it's not like they see on Youtube, they get discouraged. So many are inexperienced hunters & quite frankly shouldn't expect to see many birds unless they luck out or have a guide.

I started hunting SD in the late 80's and saw more birds than I could imagine and hunted through the down years (97) and the real peaks in the early 2000's. Hunted sporadically in SD till about 2015, missed a couple years and came back in 2018. Always found enough birds in public land to keep me content. But as you stated access to good ground has declined over the years. Twenty years ago a group of guys with one fat untrained lab could find birds on public ground, in 2018 not so much. Yes SD has more birds than other places, however as you state access is tougher unless you pay. Some of the WIA's I saw in 2018 couldn't hide a mouse. If inexperienced hunters with untrained dogs find birds they will come back, especially the low budget public land hunters. If they don't find birds they won't come back. Don't know about Youtube,don't do it so I guess that could be a problem.

 

[dakotasj]

From Keloland --

Majority of hunters, mostly from South Dakota, oppose changing current pheasant regulations

PIERRE, S.D. (KELO) — Among hunters who wrote letters and emails, twice as many said they were opposed as those who said they supported the additional opportunities the South Dakota Game, Fis…

www.keloland.com

Interesting to read to comments especially the letter from SD Farm Bureau opposing the proposed changes to current regulations.

I hunted the first week in January and it was tough and my impression was there were very few NR hunters. I can understand that pressure on the pheasants in January would make survival tougher, including hens, but I'm not sure there will be a crowd of NR hunters flocking to SD in January, so the money flow would be minimal. Cost vs. benefits? Not sure its a positive.

 

[benelli-banger]

I hunt up to the bitter end most every year, last year included...was one of my better hunts of the season, and I was all alone! I am personally indifferent to the whole proposal, I hunt in SD about 8 trips in a normal season...kind of feels good to put the gear away and not have to worry about icy roads, breaking through ice, etc...but I'll be there if they extend it!

 

[jackrabbit]

From Keloland --

Majority of hunters, mostly from South Dakota, oppose changing current pheasant regulations

PIERRE, S.D. (KELO) — Among hunters who wrote letters and emails, twice as many said they were opposed as those who said they supported the additional opportunities the South Dakota Game, Fis…

www.keloland.com

Interesting to read to comments especially the letter from SD Farm Bureau opposing the proposed changes to current regulations.

I hunted the first week in January and it was tough and my impression was there were very few NR hunters. I can understand that pressure on the pheasants in January would make survival tougher, including hens, but I'm not sure there will be a crowd of NR hunters flocking to SD in January, so the money flow would be minimal. Cost vs. benefits? Not sure its a positive.

Can't speak for all non-residents but I am going to guess that most will not go in January. Mostly due to a lot of trips are planned out on the calendar in advance when weather may not be nearly as big of a factor. Since there are 2 parts to the license, the 2 trips are already planned. Most people aren't buying a 2nd license, although some do. You may get a few people that plan a last minute late season trip after that mid- December date where your second license period can extend into the following fall.

 

[reddog]

Personally, I'd rather have a 9 day license that I could break into 3 periods for the same money. Living only a couple hundred miles away, I could utilize this better, and not have to take vacation to utilize the 5 day options. I can remember good brood counts on the Brule reservation in years past, only to have those disappear mysteriously. I trust the tribe more than the state to report real numbers. I don't know if they lost those broods due to lack of bugs/ grasshoppers or pesticides or both. I fish the Missouri River a lot in the spring and usually have a pretty good handle on the birds leftover for breeding. ps. Becoming a resident in October..

 

[kuk kuk]

Everyone who hunts SD needs to read the article by George Vandell in the September issue of Dakota Country magazine. He is a retired SD GFP biologist. He really rips the decision not to do the 2020 roadside counts by the GFP.

 

[haymaker]

There will be no pheasant hunting here after Thanksgiving. That is earlier than usual but that is about how many birds I have and if GFP think the season should be longer I am pretty sure I should shorten it here.

 

[BigRand]

unfortunately they don't leave these decisions up to the people who actually went to school for this. These decisions are made by the game commission. Which is made up of people that have no business making wildlife decisions. It basically gets shoved down the gfp's throat. Always looking for the money. This comission should be filled with people we voted on. Not appointed individuals.

 

[haymaker]

So you would have an election for the GFP commission?

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Do I agree w/ everything the GFP commission does? No. Do I think they try to make good decisions for the State, based on gathering info from interested parties....including upland biologists? Yes.
Will these 2 decisions (longer season & earlier start time for a tiny portion of it) affect bird numbers? Minimally, but only for the good.
Starting at 10, rather than noon, for a couple weeks may have a minimal effect on the # of roosters shot. I'm a public land hunter & early in the season I'm RARELY the first person to hunt a spot. More like 2nd, 3rd, sometimes 4th. Potentially having 1 more person/group hunt a spot at 10:00 won't hurt anything.
Same thing w/ lengthening the season. There won't be enough hunters in January to pressure birds more than they can stand.
It's mostly just a shot at getting a few more roosters out of the population to get the hen/rooster ratio down where it should be. I noticed it last year big time & GF&P stats confirm it. There are a LOT of roosters out there. Roosters per 100 hens was up 42% at the end of last season.
The biggest problem I'm going to have is explaining to my wife how I'm going to be hunting 4 more weekends and still get my honey-do list done.

 

[jmuller19]

I think starting at 10 is a good thing. Almost all the surrounding states have early start times and it just makes sense to me. I'm a NR so it helps me. Probably makes some people mad. Very hard to make everyone happy.