Increasing calories before the season
- Thread starter Jakeismydog2
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quail hound
Moderator
Well I'm glad you got him sorted out. If he's anything like mine at around age 2 he'll start laying around the house a lot more and there by burning less fuel.:cheers:
That is especially true with dogs who's stomachs are a bit more finicky for sure, a bit more time to adjust might be all he needs.
That is especially true with dogs who's stomachs are a bit more finicky for sure, a bit more time to adjust might be all he needs.
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HolyMoses
New member
birdshooter
Well-known member
Adding some canned food probably isn't going to do much for you except create more problems. Mostly it's useful if you need something to entice a tired dog to eat who otherwise may not eat. I will say, the key to using canned food is to not put too much in with the dry kibble. I've found out the hard way on that one.
If your dog is doing fine on what your feeding now as well as the amount, then I wouldn't change anything. If he's not losing weight and everything else is good (stools, energy, coat and general well being) then your fine. It would seem you have found the limit your dog can eat as overfeeding can often lead to runny/loose stools and more clean up on your part.
One note about performance food. Just because a feed may advertise as 30/20 protein to fat, you still have to look at the actual calories per cup, which is many times listed as kcal/cup.
Here is what I am feeding in the off season. it's advertised as a 25/17 protein to fat ratio. if you look a little closer on the calorie listings you may see something like this:
kcal/kg: 3952.51
kcal/lb: 1796.60
kcal/g: 3.953
kcal/cup: 387.35
pay attention to the kcal/cup and or kcal/kg. Anything around 400 or more kcal/cup or 4000+ kcal/kg is a pretty dense feed calorie wise.
I would expect a good 30/20 feed to be at least 400 or more, if it's not or less and you need to feed 4+ 8 oz cups just to maintain weight, then simply look for a denser feed with more calories and don't overly concern yourself too much about what the protein/fat percentage is.
Actually, fat is the most important aspect for sustainable energy for dogs. adding a little fat source to the diet such as a tablespoon of olive oil or like is a good way to add a little fat to the diet. Helps their coats too.
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HolyMoses
New member
Adding some canned food probably isn't going to do much for you except create more problems. Mostly it's useful if you need something to entice a tired dog to eat who otherwise may not eat. I will say, the key to using canned food is to not put too much in with the dry kibble. I've found out the hard way on that one.
If your dog is doing fine on what your feeding now as well as the amount, then I wouldn't change anything. If he's not losing weight and everything else is good (stools, energy, coat and general well being) then your fine. It would seem you have found the limit your dog can eat as overfeeding can often lead to runny/loose stools and more clean up on your part.
One note about performance food. Just because a feed may advertise as 30/20 protein to fat, you still have to look at the actual calories per cup, which is many times listed as kcal/cup.
Here is what I am feeding in the off season. it's advertised as a 25/17 protein to fat ratio. if you look a little closer on the calorie listings you may see something like this:
kcal/kg: 3952.51
kcal/lb: 1796.60
kcal/g: 3.953
kcal/cup: 387.35
pay attention to the kcal/cup and or kcal/kg. Anything around 400 or more kcal/cup or 4000+ kcal/kg is a pretty dense feed calorie wise.
I would expect a good 30/20 feed to be at least 400 or more, if it's not or less and you need to feed 4+ 8 oz cups just to maintain weight, then simply look for a denser feed with more calories and don't overly concern yourself too much about what the protein/fat percentage is.
Actually, fat is the most important aspect for sustainable energy for dogs. adding a little fat source to the diet such as a tablespoon of olive oil or like is a good way to add a little fat to the diet. Helps their coats too.
Good info. I believe the the food has 409 kcals per cup.
I found a chart online that said that when hard working, a 50 pound dog should have 2000 calories a day. I guess that is why I started thinking I needed to supplement his food.
birdshooter
Well-known member
I agree with your vet. Nothing to be alarmed about if his health appears good. He's still a youngster with a metabolism of a 13 year old boy. He may be filling in till he's past his 2nd or 3rd birthday.
birdshooter
Well-known member
I just saw where you said you are feeding grain free. I had a similar experience when my dog was young and I had him on Taste of the Wild grain free feed. Not enough calories plain and simple and couldn't keep weight on him. I called it the "Atkins diet for dogs".
Unless your dog has issues with grains, some quality grains in the diet such as barley, rice are a good secondary source of energy to help sustain body weight.
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quail hound
Moderator
I by no means think that grain free is the only way to go, though my dogs are on a gf food, but there are a lot of other things that are better options for carbs (energy) in dog food and most grain free formulas have a good amount of carbs in them; sweet potatos, peas, apple etc.
HolyMoses
New member
There are 409 calories per cup, more than many non-grain free offerings, including my brand of choice Fromm. Unless I am reading something wrong I guess I don't understand what you mean.
birdshooter
Well-known member
They do... but that doesn't mean grains don't add to a balanced diet. Barley and rice are two quality sources of grains that add a good carbohydrate source to any performance feed. Now that isn't to say the make-up of the feed should be grain based, but they serve a useful purpose. Contrary to what many may think, a small amount of grains in dog food does NOT equate to poor quality dog food.
My reference to TOTW grain free in my previous example was the feed was advertised as a high protein feed, yet the calories were very modest and to keep weight on the dog I needed to feed close to 6 cups daily during the hunting season. Just didn't work. If what your using is working then stick with it.
My reference to TOTW grain free in my previous example was the feed was advertised as a high protein feed, yet the calories were very modest and to keep weight on the dog I needed to feed close to 6 cups daily during the hunting season. Just didn't work. If what your using is working then stick with it.
HolyMoses
New member
:thumbsup:
so much info out there in the dog food world that it becomes overwhelming at times.
FairOaksRod
Member
A friend of mine is talking of home made dog food. She is cooking some for me tomorrow. I'm supplying three to four lbs of Wild fish and some shrimp. (Salmon) IF anyone is interested, I will pass on some receipes. I saw first hand what it did for her dog. Over all the dog looks much healither and her coat looks awesome. I'm not saying a quality dogfood can't do the same, but I am somewhat intruiged.
On another note, to Holy Moses, when we got our femail GSP in March, she had gas something fierce. I started thinking that was why the owners wanted to get rid of her. In about a month, after switching her food to what our male eats, problem solved.
On another note, to Holy Moses, when we got our femail GSP in March, she had gas something fierce. I started thinking that was why the owners wanted to get rid of her. In about a month, after switching her food to what our male eats, problem solved.
Lula's boss
New member
Post hunt recovery
Not to the confuse the issue too much, but instead of loading up calories on the front end, last year and the year before that I have been focussed on ensuring that my dog gets some of sort of glycogen recovery supplement in the 30 to 60 minutes post hunt window. Based on what I have read and learned personally the hard way in endurance sports, replacing glycogen stores in that time frame makes a lot of difference recovery wise. I have settled on a product called Glycocharge for my dog. Through the course of multiple day hunts my dog maintains it weight and energy, and shows markedly less signs of visible soreness.
Not to the confuse the issue too much, but instead of loading up calories on the front end, last year and the year before that I have been focussed on ensuring that my dog gets some of sort of glycogen recovery supplement in the 30 to 60 minutes post hunt window. Based on what I have read and learned personally the hard way in endurance sports, replacing glycogen stores in that time frame makes a lot of difference recovery wise. I have settled on a product called Glycocharge for my dog. Through the course of multiple day hunts my dog maintains it weight and energy, and shows markedly less signs of visible soreness.
birdshooter
Well-known member
I have read some info on glycogen replenishment and there seems to be some merit to this type of supplementation. I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned multiple day hunts. When hunting hard for 3-5 days consecutively, the muscles do not replenish their glycogen stores fully overnight on a regular meal and may even decrease a little each day. Quite frankly the dog runs out of gas quicker with each passing day.
As I understand it Glycogen replenishment is very timing orientated and must be given right after extensive exercise. Done correctly the muscles will replenish their glycogen stores 100% overnight.
Now.... the question remains. Are you mixing it with water and letting the dogs drink it post hunt or otherwise? How do the dogs like the taste?
Lula's boss
New member
Glycogen recovery
I have experimented some with Glycocharge. The directions that come on the bucket recommending serving size are poor, i.e. no serving size per dog weight. Nevertheless I think I have a good mix now after some trial runs. I mix the stuff, which comes in a powder form, with a cup of water. To make it more appealing, I place a small amount of wet canned food in the a feeding bowl with the liquid mix. I carry it premixed with me so that I can give it to my dog when I get back to my car. I ensure that the dog is not panting excessively before I give it to her so as not to cause any sort of vomiting or upset stomach. In order to avoid stomach bloat issues, I hold off on giving the dog dry food for a while to ensure that the dog has had time to absorb all the liquid in her gut. Initially my dog would not drink the Glycocharge without wet food added but now she I think she would drink it without any additional wet food. I only give the dog this mix post hunt or after an exertion of an extended duration.
I have experimented some with Glycocharge. The directions that come on the bucket recommending serving size are poor, i.e. no serving size per dog weight. Nevertheless I think I have a good mix now after some trial runs. I mix the stuff, which comes in a powder form, with a cup of water. To make it more appealing, I place a small amount of wet canned food in the a feeding bowl with the liquid mix. I carry it premixed with me so that I can give it to my dog when I get back to my car. I ensure that the dog is not panting excessively before I give it to her so as not to cause any sort of vomiting or upset stomach. In order to avoid stomach bloat issues, I hold off on giving the dog dry food for a while to ensure that the dog has had time to absorb all the liquid in her gut. Initially my dog would not drink the Glycocharge without wet food added but now she I think she would drink it without any additional wet food. I only give the dog this mix post hunt or after an exertion of an extended duration.