mnmthunting
Banned
Areas where predators are being controlled. Narrow strips of good cover will work fine.
Ideas to get more habitat
- Thread starter captaincoot
- Start date
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
Again, gentlemen, you are missing the point. This is a predator/nest interaction study. It PROVES that strip cover narrower than 30 feet in width reduces chick survival over condtions that existed prior to the establishment of the strip. That means that sometimes doing something CAN be worse than doing nothing at all. It doesn't matter whether the bird in question is a Dicksissel, Meadowlark, Pheasant, or Quail, the predator/nest interaction is dependant on the variable being researched; the width of the cover strip. The predators are the same from Minnesota to Mississippi. You can believe what you want, I just don't understand why people think that their casual observations outweigh scientific studies!!! Makes no sense.
UGUIDE
Active member
Thank you!
UGUIDE
Active member
PD, you just have to come to grips with the fact that the power of the Pheasant Forum may just produce better results that a scientific study.
The expereince base from the forum population is a dtatabase to be reckoned with. :thumbsup:
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
I believe the quote you're listing is saying that 30 feet is an improvement over nothing, but the 60, 90, and 120 options are better.
captaincoot
Banned
Why would you even study what size area produces more birds? Common sense would tell you bigger areas are better but not everybody can set that much ground aside. I would take a public hunting area the size of texas anyday over rhode island. People doing these studies should just call me ,and stop wasting time on stupid science projects. Take that money spent in the name of science and put it toward habitat
moellermd
Super Moderator
Very true wider is better. But to say that narrow is no good at all because it reduces bird numbers would be in disagreement with what Dr. Wes Burger seems to be saying.
mnmthunting
Banned
MAN COOT! did you hit the nail on the head or what.:10sign:
I quote you.:cheers:
"People doing these studies should just call me ,and stop wasting time on stupid science projects. Take that money spent in the name of science and put it toward habitat"
From mnmt.
I've been doing studies on studies.
Results are mostly decided before the study.
For example; All the studies done on pray vs predators. Say, if a researcher has any evidence of being anti predator in a resume he/she has no chance of a grant or a gov job in the first place.
Studies are done to impress the majority.
Another example. the general public would rather see a gray wolf then a deer, a Coyote then a pheasant, a raccoon then a mallard, a hawk then a grouse etc. Get the idea?
Ain't no study going to be done to tell the story behind MN loss of waterfowl. That would involve predation and ducks.
Or any other game species vs predators.
I quote you.:cheers:
"People doing these studies should just call me ,and stop wasting time on stupid science projects. Take that money spent in the name of science and put it toward habitat"
From mnmt.
I've been doing studies on studies.
Results are mostly decided before the study.
For example; All the studies done on pray vs predators. Say, if a researcher has any evidence of being anti predator in a resume he/she has no chance of a grant or a gov job in the first place.
Studies are done to impress the majority.
Another example. the general public would rather see a gray wolf then a deer, a Coyote then a pheasant, a raccoon then a mallard, a hawk then a grouse etc. Get the idea?
Ain't no study going to be done to tell the story behind MN loss of waterfowl. That would involve predation and ducks.
Or any other game species vs predators.
Prairie Drifter
Well-known member
It is frequently good to go back and re-read some threads. It is often easy to get too caught up in the discussion and lose the ability to communicate well toward the questions being asked. I will never claim to be a great communicator. I am certainly more anti-social than social. However in this thread the question was asked: How can something be less than nothing in reference to the 30 foot minimum on filter strips.
The answer is based in behavior. We have to realize that the behavior of adult birds seasoned by experience that we interact with during the season is quite different that the behavior of an incubating hen. The predator/prey conflict here is important because it occurs exactly when the hens are most susceptible. Having just depleted her own energy reserves to create 12-16 eggs, the hen now is genetically programmed to incubate. Her instincts tell her to stay on the eggs for 23 days. This instinct makes her exceptionally susceptible to nest predators. The math/science comes together somewhere near the 30 foot habitat width where the probability that the predator will find and be able to kill the incubating hen is extremely high. Anything less than 30 feet swings the adaptive advantage to the predator. Anything more than 30 feet swings that advantage the other direction. We have to understand that this is the average and differs with each hen, predator, or situation.
It is important to realize that a cover less than 30 feet can hold and sustain fall populations of upland game birds. However, we also need to understand that the same habitat can be a death trap for incubating hens. It's no different than what you can do as a single hunter in similar habitat. If it is 30 feet wide, you will be quite capable of being successful most of the time on bird encounters IF your shooting isn't the variable. In a 1200 foot strip of cover, how many birds will you not encounter??? It's this same "probability" that is at work in the narrower strips to give the birds the disadvantage. The hen is programmed to sit, weak, and essentially cornered by adaptation to incubate.
The answer is based in behavior. We have to realize that the behavior of adult birds seasoned by experience that we interact with during the season is quite different that the behavior of an incubating hen. The predator/prey conflict here is important because it occurs exactly when the hens are most susceptible. Having just depleted her own energy reserves to create 12-16 eggs, the hen now is genetically programmed to incubate. Her instincts tell her to stay on the eggs for 23 days. This instinct makes her exceptionally susceptible to nest predators. The math/science comes together somewhere near the 30 foot habitat width where the probability that the predator will find and be able to kill the incubating hen is extremely high. Anything less than 30 feet swings the adaptive advantage to the predator. Anything more than 30 feet swings that advantage the other direction. We have to understand that this is the average and differs with each hen, predator, or situation.
It is important to realize that a cover less than 30 feet can hold and sustain fall populations of upland game birds. However, we also need to understand that the same habitat can be a death trap for incubating hens. It's no different than what you can do as a single hunter in similar habitat. If it is 30 feet wide, you will be quite capable of being successful most of the time on bird encounters IF your shooting isn't the variable. In a 1200 foot strip of cover, how many birds will you not encounter??? It's this same "probability" that is at work in the narrower strips to give the birds the disadvantage. The hen is programmed to sit, weak, and essentially cornered by adaptation to incubate.
Crossing shot
New member
In Missouri the drop in bird numbers coincided with the drop in fur prices.
My nephew is getting into coon hunting. Not really a profitable endeavor nowadays. He does it because he enjoys it. I think he said there was some type of competition.
Thinking outside the box would seem to indicate Pheasant Forever should support these contests.
My nephew is getting into coon hunting. Not really a profitable endeavor nowadays. He does it because he enjoys it. I think he said there was some type of competition.
Thinking outside the box would seem to indicate Pheasant Forever should support these contests.