Helping a friend

Quailnerd

Quailnerd

Well-known member
Need some tips from guys with flushing dogs. I’ve only had pointing dogs so I’m reaching out for some drills and tips for a field bred golden. Got a friend with a new pup, currently 4 months old who reached out for help on gun conditioning. I’m more than happy to help so we have had 3 introductions on pigeons to gauge his desire on birds and have found him to be pretty passive, not scared or avoiding. We are not close to shooting yet in my opinion, I have trapped feral pigeons and have hobbled, teathered them for the pup but just not seeing a fire in him. I know there are steps skipped and things that could have been done, not my dog just helping. Thoughts?
 
My 8 week old was fetching wings from pheasants shot today tonight. They get wings early and 22 poppers soon after. Pidgeons are great wrap them up and we use a studded harness to train soft mouth. By 4 months dead pidgeons can be used. Make it fun. Gosh we gets new pup every4 to 5 years and I can’t remember the schedule. I guess start with wings, than dead pidgeons, the wrapped pidgeons than dead ducks. Mix vocal bangs than 22 poppers than 38 poppers as the dog progresses. No expert but have shot a lot of birds over my goldens over the years.
 
I guess my question is with a non pointing dog is everything based around the fetch, or search drills with hidden birds also done. I’ve gun broke several dogs and his enthusiasm says he’s not ready… which is fine we have time
 
Quailnerd said:
Need some tips from guys with flushing dogs. I’ve only had pointing dogs so I’m reaching out for some drills and tips for a field bred golden. Got a friend with a new pup, currently 4 months old who reached out for help on gun conditioning. I’m more than happy to help so we have had 3 introductions on pigeons to gauge his desire on birds and have found him to be pretty passive, not scared or avoiding. We are not close to shooting yet in my opinion, I have trapped feral pigeons and have hobbled, teathered them for the pup but just not seeing a fire in him. I know there are steps skipped and things that could have been done, not my dog just helping. Thoughts?
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In your text you refer to "gun conditioning" with a four-month dog. Assume you meant intro to the gun. My suggestion: have a professional deal with this training aspect. The introduction is done in careful steps when the dog is ready. Doesn't sound like this dog is ready! Good Luck!
 
jonnyB said:
In your text you refer to "gun conditioning" with a four-month dog. Assume you meant intro to the gun. My suggestion: have a professional deal with this training aspect. The introduction is done in careful steps when the dog is ready. Doesn't sound like this dog is ready! Good Luck!
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Intro is correct, this guy is a casual hunter who may go 2-4 times a year and his first bird dog. He won’t hire a trainer, not that committed. The goal with this dog is to get him gun broke by end of year if he’s ready and prevent a bad experience that’s why I’m stepping in. Some backyard drills to pass along for a retriever with access to pigeons is my question. We have time
 
Quailnerd said:
Intro is correct, this guy is a casual hunter who may go 2-4 times a year and his first bird dog. He won’t hire a trainer, not that committed. The goal with this dog is to get him gun broke by end of year if he’s ready and prevent a bad experience that’s why I’m stepping in. Some backyard drills to pass along for a retriever with access to pigeons is my question. We have time
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Guess I would echo Alaska Swamp Collie's remarks - let the dog get enthused and have fun with the live birds. Whether pointers or flushers isn't the process the same...getting them excited about birds.
 
I'm not a retriever guy either, but I think you're on the wright track. I would be a bit concerned if he's indifferent about birds at 4 months though. Does he retrieve or even chase balls and stuff? Regardless, you're doing exactly what I would do. Could he possibly be a little skidish about being in an unfamiliar area. Or maybe he's intimidated by strangers? How often is he around you? Dogs are weird sometimes. I tried to help a friend with a beautiful little Lewellen setter. Every time we take her out, she froths at the mouth and goes back to the truck. I finally came to the conclusion that she just plain didn't want to be there. She's now a perfect house dog.
 
birddude said:
I'm not a retriever guy either, but I think you're on the wright track. I would be a bit concerned if he's indifferent about birds at 4 months though. Does he retrieve or even chase balls and stuff? Regardless, you're doing exactly what I would do. Could he possibly be a little skidish about being in an unfamiliar area. Or maybe he's intimidated by strangers? How often is he around you? Dogs are weird sometimes. I tried to help a friend with a beautiful little Lewellen setter. Every time we take her out, she froths at the mouth and goes back to the truck. I finally came to the conclusion that she just plain didn't want to be there. She's now a perfect house dog.
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Dude I’m not overly concerned yet, he has a fun and friendly demeanor. He fetches very sloppy and it’s obvious this is man made from no structure. From my experience a hobbled pigeon laying on the ground is in grave trouble around a pup. We will get there
 
Yeah man good attitude. My dog has lots of quirks and gave me lots of doubts after reading to much on the forums on what she should be doing and red flags and what not. There was a point she was scared of birds or showed not much interest. I just kept at it. I did pay for bird and gun. So that was taken care of

. My regular guy who doesn’t know what he’s taking about advice would be to just get that dog excited about wings, dead pigeons, just all this stuff means fun time. Scent drills, throwing wings, lots of walks in cover. Worked our way with birds, first time I seen her tackle an angry rooster, I was stoked.
She ended up impressing me quite a bit last year doing some awesome stuff.

She is a weird dog and doesn’t have that killer instinct that my previous pups did, old dogs would do anything to kill a rabbit or anything. But loves to find birds.she is way more athletic also, I think she could compete in dock jumping competions. So every dog is different.
 
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I believe the "Puppy program" is for dogs at least 6 mo's of age. The trainer I use has pigeons on a long, light- weight string, but with wings cut. No discipline, just fun and birds for two weeks...and the introduce the gun. Basically they are ready to hunt; mine was in SD at that age and did well. Just some history and reflection on my 5th Golden.
 
i got my lab puppy at 8 weeks in december 2020. after i brought her home, I played fetch with her with tennis balls and pheasant wings for several weeks. at 4 months, I took her our to some hay fields that had knee to waist high grass and worked her on a lead, using pen raised quail tethered to "pigeon poles" to introduce her to live birds in controlled setting. I would let her lead the way, but I could keep her from catching the bird before it took flight, or when it reached the end of the tether.

at 5 months, I took her out to the grass fields and planted a few live birds while she was back in the truck, and then I turned her loose and we wandered the fields until she found them. if she got too far out, I woul dchange direction and she would come running back to stay relativelty close. when the tame quail flushed, she gave chase. i shot over her with a 28 ga. and she showed no noticeable reaction to the gunfire. the pen raised birds only flew 20-30 yards and she would fetch the, back to me.

she's been on 6 trips with me so far, half with just us, and half where she has been exposed to a couple pointing labs and GSPs. After a few days with the more polished pointers, i can tell she is more deliberate before flushing a bird she detects in the taller grass.

at 4 years old, she is a proven house dog, and proabably wouldn't score any points at any field trials. but, she seems to always be happy and eager for a good time for 2-3 weeks a year strolling the fields in SD, and she usually brings back any birds that are knocked out of the air.
 

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I have a tried and true 11 year old yellow, and a 1 year old black. My black did not retrieve, or find downed birds yesterday. My yellow found them.Im going to have to work with his retrieve I guess.Hes doing well at flushing,but hasn't figured out the whole game.
 
Quailnerd said:
Dude I’m not overly concerned yet, he has a fun and friendly demeanor. He fetches very sloppy and it’s obvious this is man made from no structure. From my experience a hobbled pigeon laying on the ground is in grave trouble around a pup. We will get there
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Well, he does have two advantages. He's field bred and has a good trainer.
 
Popped the head off a pigeon this afternoon let the blood drip on the bird and we jumped two levels of intensity. Had a dozen real good retrieves on check cord. Every dog has there own timeline!
 
Pull the flight feathers on 1 wing and let the pup chase it down. This is a great way to build prey drive, and subsequently introduce gunfire.
 
Quailnerd said:
Popped the head off a pigeon this afternoon let the blood drip on the bird and we jumped two levels of intensity. Had a dozen real good retrieves on check cord. Every dog has there own timeline!
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That's bad karma.Do not sacrifice a living thing.Thumbs down
 
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