Haymaker is 100% spot on!

W

Weimdogman

Well-known member
There is a great symbiotic relationship between pheasants and cattle. A factor in dwindling bird numbers is lack of cattle/livestock on every farm as was often the case in the past. Cattle kept Stubblefield open for birds to forage. Eliminated corn is scavenged by the birds also. Feedlots which take the place of those small herds do nothing for habitat and many would say hurt it. A lesser effect is utilized poor hayground slough grass dry enough to hay can be fed as it is ground and mixed with other feed-nutrients-vitamins-medicine. Another thing is no Cattle no fence rows of nesting cover on the edge of grain fields.

Here in S.D. my buddies and I look for areas with the 3 C's Corn Cattle Cattails. Find those and there will be birds
 
I have often said pheasants do best in marginal ND areas when ranchers and stockyards are present. Pheasants move into working stockyards to survive brutal winters when natural landscape is overblown with snow. Bet the same holds true for other states.

Wild turkeys for sure .... depend on winter feedlots and hay yards during tough winters.

Deer if allowed do also, but are more damaging to the rancher's stockpiles..
 
Thank you for supporting my opinions. I have been pheasant hunting for 57 years on this land. I have run a pheasant hunting operation for more than 20 years. I have seen a lot in that time and remember quite a bit of what I have seen. I remember the Soil bank days and the early 2000 s. I also remember the tough years. It takes a wide diversity of habitat not just a good place to hunt. We have a half section that we calve on in late April and May. We then take the cattle off for the rest of the year if it rains enough that we can. If we get enough moisture that pasture makes a great evening hunt especially for guys with pointing dogs.
 
However if you get into hilly land and big cattle operations they will have multiple sections in a single pasture and they are grazed flat for miles in every direction with a single mowed fence around them. That kind of country can stretch for many miles and that is a pheasant desert until you get back to corn. Without a pheasant booking operation I doubt you would leave the grass standing so any normal cattle operation would have it mowed down by fall and you would hunt the areas around it if you owned them. That is a special case.

For example, school lands seen a lot of cattle and no land management and they are your worst option for public land hunting, unless they happen to have a slough on them. Certain agree with two of the Cs mentions above.
 
I did say well managed grass. Any land can be managed to not produce wildlife. You would be wrong about how we manage our grass and why. I learned holistic grass management from my father and he learned it from his. School land will have deer hunting possibilities but not pheasants. Well managed grass is more profitable than over grazed grass. This year was one of the driest of my life, we were able to survive because we didn't over graze last year.
 
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Cattle are not helping Kansas. Everything here is hayed to feed cattle in other states. Losing all of our CRP to feed Texas cattle. There are more hay bales and cattle than pheasants in Kansas.
 
You said losing all of our CRP to feed Texas cattle. Whose CRP is it? If it is yours you could control that, If it is not yours then the one that owns it decided what was the best use of his resource.
 
haymaker said:
You said losing all of our CRP to feed Texas cattle. Whose CRP is it? If it is yours you could control that, If it is not yours then the one that owns it decided what was the best use of his resource.
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Well its a gov't program and I pay taxes so when the gov't allows emergency haying in a non drought year, and that hay is shipped to Texas, I have a complaint in the way things are being ran. It has been wet here in most all parts of the state in Kansas for 3 years. In June, no counties in NW Kansas was listed as dry or drought, but in August, the driest and hottest month of the year, we allow emergency haying when the in the last 2 years, millions of CRP acres have expired and been baled, emergency haying should not be allowed. There is hay sitting everywhere rotting that they can't give away in Kansas. Cattle hurts pheasants in Kansas, as well as farming practices. Some of our legislative members in Kansas are huge ranchers and hunting outfitters, especially in the western part of the state. They use their political power to line their own pockets. Ken Corbet is the enemy of Kansas residents who hunt in our state.
 
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Well if you think that something happened that isn't spelled out in the contract you should gather your evidence and take it to the proper authorities. In the mean time I doubt that any hay got cut until the nesting season was over. So you got the benefit of nesting habitat plus the other benefits like water quality. I didn't say all cattle will benefit wildlife, it takes management. Have a nice day.
 
haymaker said:
Well if you think that something happened that isn't spelled out in the contract you should gather your evidence and take it to the proper authorities. In the mean time I doubt that any hay got cut until the nesting season was over. So you got the benefit of nesting habitat plus the other benefits like water quality. I didn't say all cattle will benefit wildlife, it takes management. Have a nice day.
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Hay gets cut anytime that CRP contracts expire. Most of the hay starts getting cut during peak nesting and hatching in Kansas. That is one of the reasons the pheasant population has taken such a dive the last 3 years when we have had springs that should produce a quality hatch. But the real impact is felt during winter months when cover is needed from weather and predators. As far as telling others what to do, that is not why I visit the forum. If I want your advice as to contacting the proper authorities, I will ask for it. Contacting the proper authorities is something I have been doing my entire life to benefit hunters and conservation. It started when I was 18 years old and had an article published in Kansas Fish and Game Magazine, that is what is was called back 70's and early 80's before commercialization. It continues today when we have state legislature members such as Ken Corbet, who make decisions in regard to hunting regulations that line his own pockets. Kansas needs a program that allows landowners to set aside a tiny portion of land for conservation purposes. Buffer strips, a corners program, something like Iowas IHAP program, etc. WIHA isn't a solution to habitat, it is program designed to bring more NR hunters to the state, regardless of bird numbers.

Back in 1997, 16 million acres were enrolled into the CRP program. The result was an explosion of pheasant numbers across the U.S., especially in Kansas. As these contracts began to expire in recent years, pheasants numbers began to plummet. Land that was rich in blue stem grass was turned to crops, hayed, or grazed for cattle. The result is a decline of pheasants and upland birds all across the pheasant range. Just look at what cattle has done for the prairie chickens in the flint hills of Kansas, and everywhere else. All but vanished.
 
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I didn't mean to offend you, all I said was well managed grass benefits cattle and wildlife and that birds and cattle have a great symbiotic relationship. Both of those points are without doubt. It appears that you have trouble understanding that. What I did not say is that cattle and grass managed incorrectly will be of any benefit to any thing. You and I just don't look at things the same and that is ok. What we do here is work with nature to produce wildlife as we run the family business. I try to operate in a way that I can make a living without displacing the wildlife that has been here forever. When I talk about birds I am not just talking about pheasants but bobolinks and meadowlarks and cowbirds and such. I wish you well and I am sorry if I have not been my jovial self but it's been miserable cold and windy feeding cattle and I have been tested positive for covid. Have fun.
 
haymaker said:
I didn't mean to offend you, all I said was well managed grass benefits cattle and wildlife and that birds and cattle have a great symbiotic relationship. Both of those points are without doubt. It appears that you have trouble understanding that. What I did not say is that cattle and grass managed incorrectly will be of any benefit to any thing. You and I just don't look at things the same and that is ok. What we do here is work with nature to produce wildlife as we run the family business. I try to operate in a way that I can make a living without displacing the wildlife that has been here forever. When I talk about birds I am not just talking about pheasants but bobolinks and meadowlarks and cowbirds and such. I wish you well and I am sorry if I have not been my jovial self but it's been miserable cold and windy feeding cattle and I have been tested positive for covid. Have fun.
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I understand that if every landowner who plants crops and runs cattle would set aside 5% of their land to conservation that wildlife of all forms would benefit. Problem is that 99% of landowners in my state do nothing for wildlife as far as conservation. If you are putting a tiny portion of your land back to conservation, then great, you are doing your part. Now lets get the other 99% on board. Overall all, farming practices have impacted wildlife in a devastating way. It really reared its head in the 1920's. 1997, 16 million acres in CRP and pheasant populations explode. Less than 4 million acres of CRP enrolled today and numbers are dropping fast. Why do we have so little CRP today, simple, cattle and grain prices. Grain is produced to feed cattle, not feed the world. Can you understand that? When cattle and crops dominate, upland birds suffer. If your philosophy was spot on, we would still see prairie chickens like we do blackbirds.
 
westksbowhunter said:
I understand that if every landowner who plants crops and runs cattle would set aside 5% of their land to conservation that wildlife of all forms would benefit. Problem is that 99% of landowners in my state do nothing for wildlife as far as conservation. If you are putting a tiny portion of your land back to conservation, then great, you are doing your part. Now lets get the other 99% on board. Overall all, farming practices have impacted wildlife in a devastating way. It really reared its head in the 1920's. 1997, 16 million acres in CRP and pheasant populations explode. Less than 4 million acres of CRP enrolled today and numbers are dropping fast. Why do we have so little CRP today, simple, cattle and grain prices. Grain is produced to feed cattle, not feed the world. Can you understand that? When cattle and crops dominate, upland birds suffer. If your philosophy was spot on, we would still see prairie chickens like we do blackbirds.
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a lot of grain needlessly ends up as ethanol, that's a waste. EV's will soon cut in to that wasteful product making $2 corn again. making CRP popular and affordable for the government to subsidize.
 
westksbowhunter said:
I understand that if every landowner who plants crops and runs cattle would set aside 5% of their land to conservation that wildlife of all forms would benefit. Problem is that 99% of landowners in my state do nothing for wildlife as far as conservation. If you are putting a tiny portion of your land back to conservation, then great, you are doing your part. Now lets get the other 99% on board. Overall all, farming practices have impacted wildlife in a devastating way. It really reared its head in the 1920's. 1997, 16 million acres in CRP and pheasant populations explode. Less than 4 million acres of CRP enrolled today and numbers are dropping fast. Why do we have so little CRP today, simple, cattle and grain prices. Grain is produced to feed cattle, not feed the world. Can you understand that? When cattle and crops dominate, upland birds suffer. If your philosophy was spot on, we would still see prairie chickens like we do blackbirds.
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Like I said you and I don't see things alike. I produce grass finished beef, and I have been certified by the Audubon Society as producing my beef in a bird friendly manner. You could have a picnic among the wildflowers where I finish beef. I don't want 5% of my land producing wildlife, I want all of my land benefiting wildlife. It is apparently difficult for people to wrap their head around that concept. I realize that I am different than most and I am grateful for that.
 
haymaker said:
Like I said you and I don't see things alike. I produce grass finished beef, and I have been certified by the Audubon Society as producing my beef in a bird friendly manner. You could have a picnic among the wildflowers where I finish beef. I don't want 5% of my land producing wildlife, I want all of my land benefiting wildlife. It is apparently difficult for people to wrap their head around that concept. I realize that I am different than most and I am grateful for that.
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What percentage of landowners, who's lively hood is grain and beef, manage their land in the manner that you do? I will go on a limb and say less than 1%. I can wrap my head around the concept of what you do, and I appreciate that. But I am looking at the big picture. Go get a majority of landowners to manage all of their land for benefiting wildlife and I will support everything they do. Unfortunately, you fall in about the 1% group.
 
I understand what you say. Industrial ag is terrible. I am on the board of the South Dakota Soil Health Coalition. We are in the process of spreading the word and we are slowly making progress. That is why when Goose gets bent out of shape because I get volunteer hunters to fund habitat he is actually trying to hurt wild life.
 
Well a lot of small land owners do take care of the land. We had two nice 20 acre cover crop sites which borders corn ground and a nice pollinator planting around a wetland with the purpose of being a buffer for run off. The three sites were some of our best habitat this year. Site location is everything. These three sites are located at least a 1/4 mile from any road which decreases the hunting pressure significantly. We are not the only farmers in our area that have habitat in our farming plan. Not all farmers are bad and not all non land owners who just want hunting access are bad. The tilled strip in the one photo was due to a lot of Canadian thistle so this area was cleaned up and replanted to radishes and turnips.

On a good note, the new CRP program that allows trees to be planted on the CRP property is being really well received. I know in our county that the number of acres contracted for tree plantings is double what it was a year ago. So in South Dakota we all should be seeing more habitat in the future with a lot more evergreens and bushes.
 

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sdviking said:
Well a lot of small land owners do take care of the land. We had two nice 20 acre cover crop sites which borders corn ground and a nice pollinator planting around a wetland with the purpose of being a buffer for run off. The three sites were some of our best habitat this year. Site location is everything. These three sites are located at least a 1/4 mile from any road which decreases the hunting pressure significantly. We are not the only farmers in our area that have habitat in our farming plan. Not all farmers are bad and not all non land owners who just want hunting access are bad. The tilled strip in the one photo was due to a lot of Canadian thistle so this area was cleaned up and replanted to radishes and turnips.

On a good note, the new CRP program that allows trees to be planted on the CRP property is being really well received. I know in our county that the number of acres contracted for tree plantings is double what it was a year ago. So in South Dakota we all should be seeing more habitat in the future with a lot more evergreens and bushes.
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Sorry about your skol problem but thanks for your conservation practices.
 
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