Gun training puppy

I've always just taken my new pups out to the range and let them walk around, watching their reaction and adjusting. That's worked for me.

We've got a four month old Brittany pup who is easily startled by things/sounds he doesn't know. I took him out to the local shooting range last weekend fully expecting to have to coddle him and/or get him out of there, but he wasn't the least bit jumpy, which is a good sign.
 
OK @Bob Peters I had to read back through and see why the sad face.

I had him on a leash well away from the range in the parking lot to begin with. As I saw how he was reacting I got closer to the fence. He wasn't interfering with anything or anybody. And since everybody loves a puppy, he was a pretty popular guy with the folks we encountered.
 
@ness

We've got a four month old Brittany pup who is easily startled by things/sounds he doesn't know

I just see this as a situation with a lot of uncontrolled variables and a bad idea. Every range is different. Some are shotgun only, others guys are shooting howitzers. Once I was shooting trap and the guy next to me touched off a magnum goose shell. He said it must have fallen into his shell bag on accident, it about made me gun shy and the whole squad gave him hell for it. Even the way you did it, he just heard a bunch of distant reports associated with nothing. Better to get them in the field and have them play with a bumper or bird wing and shoot a cap gun or light shell in sub gauge, so that they associate hunting and fun with the bang. Bringing a puppy to a gun range in order to condition him to loud noises, you might as well take him to a fireworks show. Read past posts on this thread, not many think it's a good idea.
 
agraham20 said:
A 12 and a 20 are actually very close to the same decibel level and most of the time the 20 is actually higher decibels. FYI
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Goose, what he's trying to say is, gauge makes zero difference. Weight and speed of ejecta determine decibel level of report. As well as recoil.
 
Bob Peters said:
Goose, what he's trying to say is, gauge makes zero difference. Weight and speed of ejecta determine decibel level of report. As well as recoil.
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Weight and speed are recoil.

Noise level is powder burn rate, amount, barrel length, ported barrel/choke, etc
 
Bob Peters said:
@ness

We've got a four month old Brittany pup who is easily startled by things/sounds he doesn't know

I just see this as a situation with a lot of uncontrolled variables and a bad idea. Every range is different. Some are shotgun only, others guys are shooting howitzers. Once I was shooting trap and the guy next to me touched off a magnum goose shell. He said it must have fallen into his shell bag on accident, it about made me gun shy and the whole squad gave him hell for it. Even the way you did it, he just heard a bunch of distant reports associated with nothing. Better to get them in the field and have them play with a bumper or bird wing and shoot a cap gun or light shell in sub gauge, so that they associate hunting and fun with the bang. Bringing a puppy to a gun range in order to condition him to loud noises, you might as well take him to a fireworks show. Read past posts on this thread, not many think it's a good idea.
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Thanks for the reply. I get what you’re saying.

I did this in a pretty controlled way—started back away, looked at his response and adjusted. Agree this isn’t the perfect way to get a dog acclimated to a hunting environment, but feel it’s a reasonable step the way I did it.

Appreciate the input.
 
Bob Peters said:
I wouldn't follow this advice, a good way to ruin a dog. And what if something goes wrong? Next you have your dog running across one or multiple trap fields right in the line of fire. I'm a member of a trap club and I see people do stupid stuff there trying to train a puppy all the time. If the gun clubs I know of are busy, this could mean 25 people at shooting stations on various fields. Much better to go the cap gun/starter pistol route, and find a spot in the country. Lots of different ways to do it, I think the big thing is gradual building up of acceptance of the gun report.
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YES! The conventional method among most retriever trainers is
gradually decrease distance and gradually increase volume.
For example:
Session1) A person at 100 yards from pup and handler shoots a 209 starter pistol and throws a mark.
The person gradually reduces the distance to 75, 50, 25 yards. End of Training Session 1.
Session 2) A person at 100 yards from pup and handler shoots a 410 shotgun and throws a mark.
The person gradually reduces the distance to 75, 50, 25 yards. End of Training Session 2
Session 3) A person at 100 yards from pup and handler shoots a 20 gauge shotgun and throws a mark.
The person gradually reduces the distance to 75, 50, 25 yards. End of Training Session 3
Session 4) A person at 100 yards from pup and handler shoots a 12 gauge shotgun and throws a mark.
The person gradually reduces the distance to 75, 50, 25 yards. End of Training Session 4
 
AKSkeeter said:
YES! The conventional method among most retriever trainers is
gradually decrease distance and gradually increase volume.
For example:
Session1) A person at 100 yards from pup and handler shoots a 209 starter pistol and throws a mark.
The person gradually reduces the distance to 75, 50, 25 yards. End of Training Session 1.
Session 2) A person at 100 yards from pup and handler shoots a 410 shotgun and throws a mark.
The person gradually reduces the distance to 75, 50, 25 yards. End of Training Session 2
Session 3) A person at 100 yards from pup and handler shoots a 20 gauge shotgun and throws a mark.
The person gradually reduces the distance to 75, 50, 25 yards. End of Training Session 3
Session 4) A person at 100 yards from pup and handler shoots a 12 gauge shotgun and throws a mark.
The person gradually reduces the distance to 75, 50, 25 yards. End of Training Session 4
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The only thing I would add is I use a clipped wing pigeon for the mark. The idea being that the greatest thing in the world (clipped wing pigeon) and gunfire go hand in hand.
 
Gatzby said:
The only thing I would add is I use a clipped wing pigeon for the mark. The idea being that the greatest thing in the world (clipped wing pigeon) and gunfire go hand in hand.
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Good words of wisdom right there. So many people think all they need to do is condition the pup to loud noises. Success is truly more about the positive associations.
 
So many people blame the dog when it fails at something for whatever reason, maybe it broke in the duck blind, or refused to pick up the dead bird, maybe it ran off at the sound of gunfire. Failure is almost never the dogs fault, it’s almost always the handler or trainer didn’t properly prepare or train the dog for the task at hand. Theses dogs just want to please us, but they are like kids. If I was a 4 yr old and my dad started blasting off a shotgun over my head I would be scared too. Honestly it’s a miracle more dogs don’t end up ruined from improper training and handling.
 
KEOutdoors said:
Weight and speed are recoil.

Noise level is powder burn rate, amount, barrel length, ported barrel/choke, etc
Click to expand...
Porting makes it louder to us and other shooters, but doesn't change noise level at all, just it's direction of travel. And it may be due to the powder in the shell, but speaking in general terms what I said is true from my experience. Heavier and hotter shells make a louder bang.
 
agraham20 said:
So many people blame the dog when it fails at something for whatever reason, maybe it broke in the duck blind, or refused to pick up the dead bird, maybe it ran off at the sound of gunfire. Failure is almost never the dogs fault, it’s almost always the handler or trainer didn’t properly prepare or train the dog for the task at hand. Theses dogs just want to please us, but they are like kids. If I was a 4 yr old and my dad started blasting off a shotgun over my head I would be scared too. Honestly it’s a miracle more dogs don’t end up ruined from improper training and handling.
Click to expand...
x2
The best training advice I ever received. When your having trouble with a dog no matter what the problem the first place you look is in the mirror.
 
Bob Peters said:
Porting makes it louder to us and other shooters, but doesn't change noise level at all, just it's direction of travel. And it may be due to the powder in the shell, but speaking in general terms what I said is true from my experience. Heavier and hotter shells make a louder bang.
Click to expand...

Heavier shells make a bigger bang because they use a slower burning, larger powder charge.

You can buy a decible meter for reasonable price on amazon, I've been using one for rifle, air gun, and shotgun testing for 4 years now. Theres also a phone app that will work to compare noises, but the numbers wont be true readings due to phone microphone/case.
 
Bob Peters said:
@ness

We've got a four month old Brittany pup who is easily startled by things/sounds he doesn't know

I just see this as a situation with a lot of uncontrolled variables and a bad idea. Every range is different. Some are shotgun only, others guys are shooting howitzers. Once I was shooting trap and the guy next to me touched off a magnum goose shell. He said it must have fallen into his shell bag on accident, it about made me gun shy and the whole squad gave him hell for it. Even the way you did it, he just heard a bunch of distant reports associated with nothing. Better to get them in the field and have them play with a bumper or bird wing and shoot a cap gun or light shell in sub gauge, so that they associate hunting and fun with the bang. Bringing a puppy to a gun range in order to condition him to loud noises, you might as well take him to a fireworks show. Read past posts on this thread, not many think it's a good idea.
Click to expand...
Your right Bob, bringing a pup to a gun range will most likely accomplish one of two things. #1 and the most likely is completely ruining a sensitive pup. #2, create an indifference to the shot. The best way of all is to start with a banging on the bottom of the food dish before you feed them. clapping your hands when calling them. Followed by a distant shot while they are running for a dummy or bird. They need to learn to love the shot, not be indifferent. In my opinion fireworks have ruined more dogs than anything else. Followed by stupidity.
 
birddude said:
Your right Bob, bringing a pup to a gun range will most likely accomplish one of two things. #1 and the most likely is completely ruining a sensitive pup. #2, create an indifference to the shot. The best way of all is to start with a banging on the bottom of the food dish before you feed them. clapping your hands when calling them. Followed by a distant shot while they are running for a dummy or bird. They need to learn to love the shot, not be indifferent. In my opinion fireworks have ruined more dogs than anything else. Followed by stupidity.
Click to expand...

I do not agree. Your dog needs to be indifferent to every loud noise and person shooting but you/your group, otherwise you are going to have a dog that takes off across the field when another group shoots. Even worse if you use your dog for ducks and doves, it will be going ballistic every time it hears a shot elsewhere.. Whining and wanting to take off for it.
 
KEOutdoors said:
I do not agree. Your dog needs to be indifferent to every loud noise and person shooting but you/your group, otherwise you are going to have a dog that takes off across the field when another group shoots. Even worse if you use your dog for ducks and doves, it will be going ballistic every time it hears a shot elsewhere.. Whining and wanting to take off for it.
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In my opinion that’s where basic training comes in, and once a dog gets some experience they should be good enough to decipher between shots from the group they are in and shots at a distance.
 
agraham20 said:
In my opinion that’s where basic training comes in, and once a dog gets some experience they should be good enough to decipher between shots from the group they are in and shots at a distance.
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Exactly, you train them to be indifferent to other noises from the start.. ie background shots at trap range. Those should mean nothing to them.
 
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