Getting too far out

Dcup said:
Maybe I need to work with a professional, but how many professional trainers want to take on a 2.5 year old dog? I also feel like I need to start all over.
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2.5 is nothing. I am fostering a 10 yo vizsla who i put on some pigeons and she points great. Shes pointed wild quail just fine too. I hope to take her on a "real" hunt soon.
In your case, i think a trainer who would work with you and the dog would be great. That way you learn something and so does the dog.
 
V-John said:
2.5 is nothing. I am fostering a 10 yo vizsla who i put on some pigeons and she points great. Shes pointed wild quail just fine too. I hope to take her on a "real" hunt soon.
In your case, i think a trainer who would work with you and the dog would be great. That way you learn something and so does the dog.
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very good advice v john, that dog has at least 8 years of good hunting left in her, don't give up on her, we all had to learn from someone how to train for good results......enjoy the journey and your dog.
 
The problem is not range but flushing when a GSP should be pointing. As long as you can either see or hear a pointing dog, it is not out of range IMO. The whole idea of a pointing dog is to give it range to find the birds and then hold point until you arrive triggering the flush. I think the dog just needs more time on birds afield to get dialed in to pointing. I question whether any training will hasten its pointing.
 
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Thanks for the ideas

My GSP is about the same age. He is used to working quail and ranging out. With pheasants she adapts in weeds and cover but tends to go too fast on fencerows. I think additional work on whoa is a good place to start. He does a good job trailing the birds but I often can't keep up and of course pheasants don't hold like quail. Thanks again. as an inexperienced dog handler I'm trying to learn all I can
 
It is funny after reading your post that I was in the almost same exact situation. I ended up getting a 10 week old non papered male GSP from someone here on this forum. Never owning a GSP ever and not knowing what to expect I decided to take him to a (well known)trainer in my area. Well he put at the time my 5 month old pup in a cage with a bird(pigeon) to establish some drive and get him birdy. Well I think he was more scared of the bird than the bird was of him :eek:. The trainer looks at me and says he never seen that before. He said take him home and just let him be a pup for awhile. So last year in September I dropped the pup off to him for a few months since I did not have time at all to do any training. He was about 11 months old. The trainer called me to come down and see the dog after three weeks. He had the dog pointing birds. Hunting to the front. That got me really excited. I almost lost hope in this dog because he didnt point anything or care for birds. Well after 7 weeks with the trainer I picked him up for opening weekend. I hunted him with my pointing lab and this was a big NO NO. It was like he was off to the races to see who can get the bird first. Well it ended up him busting birds like the issue you are having. He did get a few points that season and we got him a few birds. but he needed time with hunting just him and I. After that things got better.

So this summer I dropped him off to the same trainer. About 8 more weeks of training with him. He still has a tendency to bump birds but I can tell he is figuring it out alot more. This trainer does use the silent method and I do not think it has been good for my pup. I think he needs to be "WHOA" broke and steadied. That will be my next thing. I have a big heart for this dog and I want to give him the opportunity to be great hunting dog regardless of a piece of paper. So, like you I don't need a super stud or field trial dog. I just wanted a dog that can comb a field and hunt hard. I think you just need to hunt the heck out of him and have some patience with him. Sometimes your best hunts will be just you and him. You can start to work together and figure out his body language. My pup is still a work in progress at two years. Once my pointing lab figured out that we are a team, we have been getting alot of birds. Good Luck and sorry for the long post. :cheers:

Pic of his first wild rooster last year (my avatar).

Leofirstrooster-1.jpg
 
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Heres my .02 cents. I am by no means a trainer either, so take it for what its worth. While my GSP pup was between 5 to 7 months old we did a good bit of obedience training together. Wanted to do that young thinking she could be a therapy dog for me as well ( I have a touch of PTSD from a trip to Afghanistan). Anyway that ain't gonna happen since she is a little too protective of me, but the benefit was teaching her to heel no matter the distraction. I believe dogs watch each other and learn behaviors, may not be so but it is my opinion. When my dog did the same thing your describing I put her on heel and made her just walk with me while the other dogs in our party hunted, did that for three fields, last field of the day things clicked and she is doing good.

Also as many have said experience is the best teacher. One wise old man I hunt with has many different dogs. Some are mixed breeds, some have been rescued couch dogs that never saw a bird or a gun. I asked him how he gets them to hunt, he told me just to put the dog in the field as much as possible. He said if the like you and they have any interest at all they'll figure it out. The key I believe, and I think my buddy was trying to point out, is just be patient, let you and the dog learn together.



Have a Good 'Urn,
bones
 
Just my two cents. I use the silent command system and have found it to be very good. My question would be are you and the trainer on the same page as to your expectations? Are you doing the same things as the trainer in regards to how your dog handles birds? It does not take a dog very long to know what they can get away with on how you handle them and how the trainer does.
 
Scoelki said:
It is funny after reading your post that I was in the almost same exact situation. I ended up getting a 10 week old non papered male GSP from someone here on this forum. Never owning a GSP ever and not knowing what to expect I decided to take him to a (well known)trainer in my area. Well he put at the time my 5 month old pup in a cage with a bird(pigeon) to establish some drive and get him birdy. Well I think he was more scared of the bird than the bird was of him :eek:. The trainer looks at me and says he never seen that before. He said take him home and just let him be a pup for awhile. So last year in September I dropped the pup off to him for a few months since I did not have time at all to do any training. He was about 11 months old. The trainer called me to come down and see the dog after three weeks. He had the dog pointing birds. Hunting to the front. That got me really excited. I almost lost hope in this dog because he didnt point anything or care for birds. Well after 7 weeks with the trainer I picked him up for opening weekend. I hunted him with my pointing lab and this was a big NO NO. It was like he was off to the races to see who can get the bird first. Well it ended up him busting birds like the issue you are having. He did get a few points that season and we got him a few birds. but he needed time with hunting just him and I. After that things got better.

So this summer I dropped him off to the same trainer. About 8 more weeks of training with him. He still has a tendency to bump birds but I can tell he is figuring it out alot more. This trainer does use the silent method and I do not think it has been good for my pup. I think he needs to be "WHOA" broke and steadied. That will be my next thing. I have a big heart for this dog and I want to give him the opportunity to be great hunting dog regardless of a piece of paper. So, like you I don't need a super stud or field trial dog. I just wanted a dog that can comb a field and hunt hard. I think you just need to hunt the heck out of him and have some patience with him. Sometimes your best hunts will be just you and him. You can start to work together and figure out his body language. My pup is still a work in progress at two years. Once my pointing lab figured out that we are a team, we have been getting alot of birds. Good Luck and sorry for the long post. :cheers:

Pic of his first wild rooster last year (my avatar).

Leofirstrooster-1.jpg
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If you need help training your dog, give me a ring. We are in the same town.

As far as the op goes, if you want a trained dog, you need to either find a trainer to have the dog trained, a trainer that can help you or take a dog training seminar or two. You get what you put into it.
 
I never understood why people think that the silent method doesn't work for their dog. It's not complicated really. Whoa just gives you one more command to scream at your dog when he isn't listening. Whoa isn't the problem. Teaching your dog what your expectations are, and how to handle them is the problem.
 
I agree with some of the posts...

Quite simply, this dog is not trained and is disobedient. Chasing birds is not exclusive to pointers - retrievers have the same issue. Strong prey drive and not staying in gun range (hunting by themselves) usually a common problem with any dog.

Keeping the dog on a lead from an early age gets them conditioned to staying close - never very far, and certainly in eyesight for you to force them to return to a reasonable distance.

My trainer has shocked dogs in the field up to 500 times. However, some dogs never get it and continue to chase. It's difficult to arrange a setting in your back yard - to duplicate a chase situation.

You might consider having a pro work with the dog...a very good investment!
 
500 times?
My God... I think that the trainer needs to try something else out.

What makes you think that after shocking the dog 300 times, that times 400 and 500 are going to work?

Not someone I would send a dog to, but...
 
V-John said:
500 times?
My God... I think that the trainer needs to try something else out.

What makes you think that after shocking the dog 300 times, that times 400 and 500 are going to work?

Not someone I would send a dog to, but...
Click to expand...

Don't stop before the miracle happens:eek: What is it they say about insanity?
 
V-John said:
500 times?
My God... I think that the trainer needs to try something else out.

What makes you think that after shocking the dog 300 times, that times 400 and 500 are going to work?

Not someone I would send a dog to, but...
Click to expand...

Hear, hear! IMO such a trainer is worthless.
 
So this is a bit of an old post, but how is it going?

I am a guy just like you, 29 and learning this whole dog training thing as I go. I don't have a huge interest in spending a bunch of cash on trainers and whatnot, because I already enjoy hunting with my buddy very much, I am just always looking for things to work on so that he gets better and better.... restarting just doesn't make sense to me - now I must say I have shot many more birds over Mojo than you have - so resetting the whole thing may work for you.

What I would try is a command that would help to slow the dog down. I actually have started to train a command "Slow Down" in a calm slower voice to help when I am riding my bike with him (on a lead) and we are nearing some type of intersection on the bike path. He has picked up on it and does better every time we are out. In that way you can teach her a "calm" or "slow" command at home in some situations and then potentially help her slow down in the field, in my mind similar to how you may teach a "Woah" command at home for use in the field to help steady a dog on point. I don't know that a "slow" or "calm" command will be easy to teach but it may help remind her to take her time when she smells a bird in the field.

Something else might be putting a check cord on her and moving into a planted bird slowly, so she might put together that the slower she moves when she smells a bird the better the chances she gets to get the bird - again, I'm not pro, but those are the types of things I might consider trying
 
I use a check cord and planted birds on my Golden (who has a very strong prey drive) and this does seem to work. I use the command "eeeasy" - whoa sounds like no.

When off the check cord, I use the command "eeeasy" and the buzzer on the collar. The dog seems to make the connection (2 yrs old) but is still very aggressive.

I also introduced "stay" when he's very close to the bird, and he now points almost every time. I'm not rigid about the stay command but enjoy watching him point.

Good luck with your dog!
 
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