genetically alter grains

Miforester

Active member
I have often wondered since the big push for biofuels and more resistant grains or genetically modified grains, do you think that has an impact on game birds in states like Iowa and Nebraska? Habitat is the biggest factor. However, I have not come across any articles addressing the altered grains. Corn and beans are being modified to be better suited for biofuel production or at least at the meetings I attended towards the end of the bush administration that was the direction seed companies were going. Just curious as to others thoughts, if the has been discussed before my apologies and mods please remove.
 

Gumboot

New member
Almost 90% of US corn production is GMO. Majority of gmo events have little to do with increased extraction at the ethanol plant, although there are some varieties that address that.

Industry tells us that GMO corn is perfectly safe for human consumption so I'll not address whether or not it's healthy for wildlife. The one detrimental effect GMO seed I see is the enabling of clean farming. It was much more difficult back in the 70's to keep weeds out of your beans and corn. You had to spray it several times, cultivate it, and even if you did everything right it was really hard to get clean fields. Today you put down a little preplant herbicide, plant the bestest and latest tech corn seed, come back a month later with Roundup (or whatever else), and in a couple of weeks you have a beautiful weed free field. Maximizes production but not that good for wildlife.

Taking out hedge rows is my biggest bummer...but if I paid $4-5k per acre for some farmground, guess I'd farm as much of it as I could.

Hats off to the producers that forego some additional revenue and leave an unharvested row or two in field, plant buffer strips, don't mow waterways, and other practices that don't help their bottom line, but greatly benefit wildlife.
 

Jerryv

Member
Well said, Gumboot. The huge clean fields still provide some food for wildlife due to inefficiency in the harvesting process, but there is no shelter left. As the equipment gets bigger and more automated there will be less and less fencerows and rough patches left.

It is actually kind of scary when you see a 3 or 4 hundred acre field in the spring before the next crop is started and there isn't a trace of green anywhere in it. I always wonder what that is doing to the environment.

Jerry
 

petrey10

New member
I have often wondered since the big push for biofuels and more resistant grains or genetically modified grains, do you think that has an impact on game birds in states like Iowa and Nebraska? Habitat is the biggest factor. However, I have not come across any articles addressing the altered grains. Corn and beans are being modified to be better suited for biofuel production or at least at the meetings I attended towards the end of the bush administration that was the direction seed companies were going. Just curious as to others thoughts, if the has been discussed before my apologies and mods please remove.

I'm not gonna be a jerk but if you last talked ag in bush administration you are seriously outdated..... please show me a study that proves GMOs are bad for u or animals. There isn't one.

GMO aren't made to produce biofuels.... it's to feed the rapidly growing population on a limited number of productive acres.

No gmos aren't the problem.
 

McFarmer

Active member
The insect population in some GMO fields is much less.

I gotta think that would affect bird populations.

Haven't seen anything to back that up however.
 

Crossing shot

New member
GMO crops cannot be judged for side effects until a generation of humans eat them for their entire lifetime. It's like global warming; you cannot prove it until it's too late to do anything about it.

It would be nearly impossible to appraise its affect on other species. If bugs and plants we label weeds are harmed, it would be safe to assume they are not safe for the environment. It still could be safer than the old method though.
 

haymaker

Well-known member
I'm not gonna be a jerk but if you last talked ag in bush administration you are seriously outdated..... please show me a study that proves GMOs are bad for u or animals. There isn't one.

GMO aren't made to produce biofuels.... it's to feed the rapidly growing population on a limited number of productive acres.

No gmos aren't the problem.

Have you heard or read Dr. Don Huber? There are lots of people that think they have information that is not favorable to GMOs. I sell grass fed beef, one of the questions that I get asked is about GMOs or the lack of them. It is a real issue with a lot of consumers. I am not sure what effect it could have on wildlife. I do not plant any GMO crops any more. There just is not an economic reason for me to plant them any more.
 

ranchodeluxe

New member
GMO crops cannot be judged for side effects until a generation of humans eat them for their entire lifetime. It's like global warming; you cannot prove it until it's too late to do anything about it.

It would be nearly impossible to appraise its affect on other species. If bugs and plants we label weeds are harmed, it would be safe to assume they are not safe for the environment. It still could be safer than the old method though.



Global warming has already been proven, what's left to debate is the level of human involvement in that warming. That's where you get called a "denier". Just do, or say anything to let the radicals know you aren't drinking the Kool-Aid, they have all kinds of nice names to call you.
 

petrey10

New member
There's no economic reason for you to plant gmo ??? Oh please do elaborate because i highly disagree.

Grass fed beef? How did you know if the grass hasn't been modified? How do you buffer your livestock from the neighbor using gmo seed and chemical?

"Grass fed" Has been revoked as a labeling by USDA.... it means very little for you to have it anymore


I will agree that the insect population may be less. But I have yet to see a study show wildlife benefit from organic farming. My theory is there is a significant amount more trips thru field disrupting hatches and wildlife. But maybe the buffers would help sustain the higher disruptions.
 

petrey10

New member
There's a lot of people that believe in UFOs, Santa Claus and Easter bunny but there evidence isn't backed up by much PROOF.

How do you purpose you feed such a rapidly growing population?
 

petrey10

New member
GMO crops cannot be judged for side effects until a generation of humans eat them for their entire lifetime. It's like global warming; you cannot prove it until it's too late to do anything about it.

It would be nearly impossible to appraise its affect on other species. If bugs and plants we label weeds are harmed, it would be safe to assume they are not safe for the environment. It still could be safer than the old method though.

It took a generation of studies to prove cigarettes cause cancer? You realize how long a generation is correct?
 

haymaker

Well-known member
There's no economic reason for you to plant gmo ??? Oh please do elaborate because i highly disagree.

Grass fed beef? How did you know if the grass hasn't been modified? How do you buffer your livestock from the neighbor using gmo seed and chemical?

"Grass fed" Has been revoked as a labeling by USDA.... it means very little for you to have it anymore


I will agree that the insect population may be less. But I have yet to see a study show wildlife benefit from organic farming. My theory is there is a significant amount more trips thru field disrupting hatches and wildlife. But maybe the buffers would help sustain the higher disruptions.

The grass that my cattle eat is native grass, there has been some invasion by smooth brome grass. I don't think GMO corn cross pollinates with brome grass or western wheatgrass. Am I wrong about that. I am not organic nor do I intend to be. I can control weeds with residual chemicals. Glyphosate no longer works on many weeds. What price do I sell my grass fed beef for? It is significantly higher than commodity beef and I have many repeat customers including some of my hunting clients. You seem quite defensive about this. I am not telling you or anyone else what to grow or eat. Before we dropped GMO my son and I did a comparison on yields and profit as he preferred GMO. While it was not a scientific study with several replications it did convince him that we did not need GMO anymore. I could go on and on about beneficial insects and other reasons to strive for soil health instead of technology. However I don't need to convert you, that is not my goal. By the way are you familiar with Dr. Don Huber or Howard Vliger? Or perhaps Dr. Thierry Vrain the molecular biologist. Have I elaborated enough? You are welcome to disagree, I am not concerned about what you do I am curious why what I do bothers you so much.
 

Crossing shot

New member
It took a generation of studies to prove cigarettes cause cancer? You realize how long a generation is correct?

When they say salt is bad for you, that means people born and raised with high salt food had medical issues later in life. It is common to group people with close birthdays into named generations, like baby boomers.

When the people who cut back salt for their kids and those kids keep their low salt diet as adults, when those kids are old, they can make some comparisons between high and low salt diets. Same for GMO crops. It will take 50 years of data to prove GMO crops are safe, unless the effects are severe.
 

petrey10

New member
When they say salt is bad for you, that means people born and raised with high salt food had medical issues later in life. It is common to group people with close birthdays into named generations, like baby boomers.

When the people who cut back salt for their kids and those kids keep their low salt diet as adults, when those kids are old, they can make some comparisons between high and low salt diets. Same for GMO crops. It will take 50 years of data to prove GMO crops are safe, unless the effects are severe.

I see what you are saying but it's not like along the way there aren't some significant signs that salt is bad for you.

And btw GMOs have been around for 30+ years so we are almost to you data range and there still is no concrete evidence in the slightest that GMOs are bad.
 

petrey10

New member
The grass that my cattle eat is native grass, there has been some invasion by smooth brome grass. I don't think GMO corn cross pollinates with brome grass or western wheatgrass. Am I wrong about that. I am not organic nor do I intend to be. I can control weeds with residual chemicals. Glyphosate no longer works on many weeds. What price do I sell my grass fed beef for? It is significantly higher than commodity beef and I have many repeat customers including some of my hunting clients. You seem quite defensive about this. I am not telling you or anyone else what to grow or eat. Before we dropped GMO my son and I did a comparison on yields and profit as he preferred GMO. While it was not a scientific study with several replications it did convince him that we did not need GMO anymore. I could go on and on about beneficial insects and other reasons to strive for soil health instead of technology. However I don't need to convert you, that is not my goal. By the way are you familiar with Dr. Don Huber or Howard Vliger? Or perhaps Dr. Thierry Vrain the molecular biologist. Have I elaborated enough? You are welcome to disagree, I am not concerned about what you do I am curious why what I do bothers you so much.

It is fine that you do it and I have no problem with it.

The only thing I have a problem with is the statement your conventional crop out profits gmo. I have yet to see that scenario in dealing with 44mill loan portfolio. Your "study" was how many years? What was the weather like in those years? How did it compare to your neighbors? What premium r you receiving for conventional and can they take the grain timely? While you delivering it timely? All questions I have and you don't need to convince me. I just have my doubts.

Where I was going with grass fed was the usda has revoked that labeling... to me that signals difficulty in proving it and guys abusing the labeling for that niche market. Also it seems you are selling custom cut beef privately while comparing it to wholesale market. I would hope you get a premium for your cattle that takes much resources/land to grow. Meanwhile the cattle lots turnover their stock much quicker and efficient.

I just know some (not you) state grass fed bc that's what's the trend and plant seed that is gmo... but some consumers confuse the two. Again why I believe usda revoked the labeling.


Also stated that farms are becoming more efficient. Combines, etc... well yeah they are but a 1-2% loss on 200bu what was our losses in efficiency when we were producing 140bu? Hard to prove and I haven't seen a lot of data on it but maybe the difference isn't as big as we thought.
 

haymaker

Well-known member
It is fine that you do it and I have no problem with it.

The only thing I have a problem with is the statement your conventional crop out profits gmo. I have yet to see that scenario in dealing with 44mill loan portfolio. Your "study" was how many years? What was the weather like in those years? How did it compare to your neighbors? What premium r you receiving for conventional and can they take the grain timely? While you delivering it timely? All questions I have and you don't need to convince me. I just have my doubts.

Where I was going with grass fed was the usda has revoked that labeling... to me that signals difficulty in proving it and guys abusing the labeling for that niche market. Also it seems you are selling custom cut beef privately while comparing it to wholesale market. I would hope you get a premium for your cattle that takes much resources/land to grow. Meanwhile the cattle lots turnover their stock much quicker and efficient.

I just know some (not you) state grass fed bc that's what's the trend and plant seed that is gmo... but some consumers confuse the two. Again why I believe usda revoked the labeling.


Also stated that farms are becoming more efficient. Combines, etc... well yeah they are but a 1-2% loss on 200bu what was our losses in efficiency when we were producing 140bu? Hard to prove and I haven't seen a lot of data on it but maybe the difference isn't as big as we thought.

Good response, I love a good honest debate. My study as I said was not scientific. My son wanted to compare, the NON GMO field out yielded the GMO by enough that my son decided there wasn't anything to lose by planting non gmo. It was a one year deal. We sell corn just like my neighbors do at the local elevator, no premium. As for the grass fed beef, I am selling it for almost double what the comodity market is. I give a new potential customer a package of rib steaks, if he likes it he can buy a quarter or more. In the current market that is the most profitable cattle that I sell and I sell more every year. Next year I will sell Wagyu beef raised on grass. I am trying to improve my soil health. As I get further into soil health I am finding the need for technology is being reduced. When my neighbors are spraying for aphids in their beans I have a hard time finding any. I know I am getting into the weeds on this but I do believe that it all fits together and the fact that the healthier the life below the ground is the healthier the life above the ground is, that is true for wildlife and domestic livestock. With the current market situation if I can cut imputs without sacrificing income it is a win for me. Thanks again for the debate, I hope I didn't get boring on you.
 

1pheas4

Super Moderator
How do you purpose you feed such a rapidly growing population?

If it came down to not having enough food to feed a rapidly growing population couldn't we cut back on Ethanol production and start using food for food?
.
 
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