I have a 2.5 year brittany that is a very good pointer and shows some interest in retrieving. But he just doesn't quite get it. He runs to the downed pheasant and he puts the bit on it, but he won't bring it to me. He has never been spurred. He did bring back a quail last year. He seems to have a soft mouth. Any advice would be great.
Forced Retrieving
- Thread starter GoBadgers
- Start date
HUNTIN4FUN
Member
Don't force your dog to retrieve with force retrieving. Just like you and I the dog should think of the field as a fun time and want to go back. When you force retrieve a dog you make the retrieving bit not fun for them. What you can do is start of in a hallway of your house where you can contain the dog and play fetch there so it only has one way to go and that is back to you. Once the dog is doing good there then you can take them out in the yard. Make it a game at first and the rest will follow in the field.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
GoBadgers,
I have been in your shoes and feel I can offer you some excellent advice based on my experience.
I had a male Brittany that didn't start to retrieve until 2-3 years of age. Then all of a sudden, without any force training, he started to retrieve and became one of the best retrieving dogs I've owned. Then I got a female that was out of his brother. My female showed some interest in retrieving but I didn't push it thinking that, like my male, she would pick it up. Boy, was I wrong. She never did get it. Like your dog, she would catch cripples but would not bring them back. All of a sudden she's 5 years old and the trainers I talked to discouraged me from forcing her at that age. They said it could be done but they would not recommend it. She is a super hunter and does everything else with great style and intensity, just won't retrieve.
So, my advice to you is to find a trainer experienced in teaching the force/trained retrieve. Generally it will cost you $500-600. That's a small price to pay to have your dog retrieving for you for the next 10 years. I sure wish I had gone that route. And make sure you find a trainer that is use to working with Britts as they are generally quite soft and do not take well to heavy handed training like a lab.
You can do a force/trained fetch program yourself but unless you have the proper equipment and patience to do it I would send your dog to a professional. The problem you have now is time in finding someone with the time to do it prior to the hunting season. I'ts usually a 4-6 week process.
Good luck and let us know how you turn out.
Dakotazeb
I have been in your shoes and feel I can offer you some excellent advice based on my experience.
I had a male Brittany that didn't start to retrieve until 2-3 years of age. Then all of a sudden, without any force training, he started to retrieve and became one of the best retrieving dogs I've owned. Then I got a female that was out of his brother. My female showed some interest in retrieving but I didn't push it thinking that, like my male, she would pick it up. Boy, was I wrong. She never did get it. Like your dog, she would catch cripples but would not bring them back. All of a sudden she's 5 years old and the trainers I talked to discouraged me from forcing her at that age. They said it could be done but they would not recommend it. She is a super hunter and does everything else with great style and intensity, just won't retrieve.
So, my advice to you is to find a trainer experienced in teaching the force/trained retrieve. Generally it will cost you $500-600. That's a small price to pay to have your dog retrieving for you for the next 10 years. I sure wish I had gone that route. And make sure you find a trainer that is use to working with Britts as they are generally quite soft and do not take well to heavy handed training like a lab.
You can do a force/trained fetch program yourself but unless you have the proper equipment and patience to do it I would send your dog to a professional. The problem you have now is time in finding someone with the time to do it prior to the hunting season. I'ts usually a 4-6 week process.
Good luck and let us know how you turn out.
Dakotazeb
I also don't like force fetching, it requires showing your dog that it is in for a lot of pain if it doesn't bring the bird back. I prefer using positive reinforcment on my dogs. My dogs acted the same way, just go to the birds at times and not want to bring them back, I just work with them and act like I'll leave and they always pick the bird up and bring it to me, when they do I praise them and give them a treat. After working with them like this they no longer just stand by the bird.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
It doesn't have to be a "Force Fetch" method. too many times people associate "Force Fetch" with a certain degree of pain. That's not necessarily true.
I've have an article entitled, "The Trained Retrieve" that I tried to post here but it was too large of a Word doc.. If you'd like a copy email me and I'll sent it to you.
Here's a link to another "Trained Retrieve" method from Gun Dog Magazine: http://www.gundogmag.com/training/GD_trained_1008/index.html
You can find other articles on the web by doing a search for "The Trained Retrieve".
All the Force Fetch or Trained Retrieve methods a similar in many ways. But they don't have to involve pain or discomfort for the dog. In general the "Trained Retrieve" method uses less force. I've tried a couple of these methods but have found I don't have the proper time or patience. That's why I still recommend using a professional. But make sure you find out what method he/she is using and that it is appropriate for your dog.
I've have an article entitled, "The Trained Retrieve" that I tried to post here but it was too large of a Word doc.. If you'd like a copy email me and I'll sent it to you.
Here's a link to another "Trained Retrieve" method from Gun Dog Magazine: http://www.gundogmag.com/training/GD_trained_1008/index.html
You can find other articles on the web by doing a search for "The Trained Retrieve".
All the Force Fetch or Trained Retrieve methods a similar in many ways. But they don't have to involve pain or discomfort for the dog. In general the "Trained Retrieve" method uses less force. I've tried a couple of these methods but have found I don't have the proper time or patience. That's why I still recommend using a professional. But make sure you find out what method he/she is using and that it is appropriate for your dog.
only a pointer
Banned
force fetch
We agree on lots of things 4 fun but i have to diagree with you on that one, i think your idea is perfect with a puppy but not for an older dog force breaking is the only way for perfection consistency,trialers definately have to have it done they cant have a bird dropped halfway back to them or they are beat.The dog knows what you want but they are trying to tell you im not doing it make me! i mean whos the boss you are the dog. what if molly didnt come when you said come personally that drives me nuts, anyway thats my thoughts.
We agree on lots of things 4 fun but i have to diagree with you on that one, i think your idea is perfect with a puppy but not for an older dog force breaking is the only way for perfection consistency,trialers definately have to have it done they cant have a bird dropped halfway back to them or they are beat.The dog knows what you want but they are trying to tell you im not doing it make me! i mean whos the boss you are the dog. what if molly didnt come when you said come personally that drives me nuts, anyway thats my thoughts.
I shouldn't of said "forced retrieved" as much as "teach him to retieve". He shows a lot of excitment when I toss him a tennis ball, but it only last about 8times and he loses interest. I usually try and stop before he gets bored. I always offer lots of praise. What if I added some pheasant scent to the ball? I bought one of those Doken pheasants for retrieving, but he has no interest in it once it figures out it isn't the real deal. Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
HUNTIN4FUN
Member
oh Pointer its ok we dont need to agree on everything. I just don't believe that a spaniel should need to be trained with the force fetch method simply because aside from labs they are a natural retrieving animal. Some where along the line it just needs to be reinforced and retaught/retrained to do what it is suppose to do. You can do this with confidence building things and various rewards. Now you and I may need to use a more aggressive approach as the animals we choose tend to be a bit more hard headed.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
Some dogs are natural retrievers and others are not. As I said in my first post on this thread, my 6 year old female Brittany is a perfect example. Great dog, great hunter, but natural retrieving was just not bred into her and I failed to properly train her to retrieve because I thought she would "get it". Unfortunately, I think you have a very similar dog. Getting your dog on a lot of birds isn't going to make him retrieve. My female gets into more birds in one year here in South Daktoa than most dogs do in a life time. But it won't make a retriever out of her.
I have a 9 month old female Britt out of some very good breeding and she is a natural retriever. She will retrieve anything you throw all day long.
Your male, like my female, just didn't have this in their breeding. So the only option is to teach/train them to do it. It's too late for my 6 year old but at 2.5 years of age you still have some time, but it's getting late. You can try one of the programs I have my previous post but I would still encourage you to find the right trainer and put him through a Trained Retrieve program. You will save yourself a lot of time and frustration.
Take it from someone that has been in your shoes.
only a pointer
Banned
fetch
Nail on head!
Nail on head!
FCSpringer
Moderator
I highly recomend Dobbs dogs .com Trained retrieve and hold and fetch Videos. Dobbs is the best trainer in the country on this stuff and most everyone else has just learned from him or coppied his training. There is absolutly nothing wrong with doing this to your dog, but as D Z said if you think at all after watching the videos you can't do it, have me do it. Just kidding, it is not that tough. There is no pain at all. It is low level stimulas.And they show you that, and how to find the right level of stimulas for your dog, they are all different. As said you need everything in the video, no corner cutting. Table, collar ect., Most dogs are natural retrievers they just don't bring the bird back some times. this helps with that. As someone said the hallway stuff is great too but that should have been done when the dog was a pup, at weening age starting. that is when the positive reinforcement training works the best. An older dog can learn this way too but most of the time the trained retrieve meathod works the best. you could wait around for a few years for the dog to figure it out but I personaly think that is just instilling more bad habbit. And a dog quite possibly will just screw with you the rest of it's life. Force break the dog useing the dobbs meathods or pay someone to do it for you and you will get it over with and be enjoying the rest of the dogs life with you. There again is no pain at all, thats just not true at all.
BritChaser
Well-known member
Retrieving
Play "Fetch" with the dog in the yard. Give the dog a little treat when it fetches in the yard. If the dog does it 2-3 times, quit. Then in the field, take a pheasant and play "fetch" with it. Give it a treat for the retrieve. Use but one command: "Fetch." The dog will catch on.
Play "Fetch" with the dog in the yard. Give the dog a little treat when it fetches in the yard. If the dog does it 2-3 times, quit. Then in the field, take a pheasant and play "fetch" with it. Give it a treat for the retrieve. Use but one command: "Fetch." The dog will catch on.
Bearded Beast
New member
I believe 100% in force fetching and I have forced broke all of my dogs. They are excellent retrievers and when a bird goes down the will always bring it back. I have lost less than five birds in the last five years. Force fetching is not so much about force but about consistency.