Flusher/Pointer Question

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slidellkid

Member
Hello all,

I will be in the market for a new dog soon. I have owned Vizslas in the past and understand pointers well; however, I am considering a flusher for pheasant hunting.

When hunting pheasants with a pointer (I have only done it when I was a boy living in Colorado) do you run the risk of the birds never sitting tight and the continiously scent trailing them until they have run out of range? Is a fast moving flusher better able to "hem up" a rooster and get him in the air before he runs out of the field?

How do you train a flusher, it seems it would be mostly instinctive as long as they are not ranging too far out.

Thanks,

Dan
 
I can only speak for labs but most of my training is with a collar. Just have to teach them when you tone that means quarter back to you or at least slow down. You can definitely tell when they are hot on scent and it is a running bird (most of the time a rooster). If I am by myself alot of time I will scan the cover ahead and guess the area the rooster will hole up in and position myself for a shot. If I am hunting with others I slow the dog down with the tone and hope the bird will not flush wild. Most retrievers are pretty easy to train for the uplands in my experience. The late season can be a blast with labs as mine always seem to function better in cold weather and the birds are usually in the thick nasty places that labs don't mind busting through.
 
You can always look for a pointing lab. You can kind of get the best of both worlds. It's never a guarantee when getting one but if you do your research on bloodlines and all you can have a pretty good bet. I really like having a pointing lab. She will point the bird if it sits or tail after it if it wants to get into a track race. Running birds are quite a common occurance here in SD on public land, especially late season. So the versatility is a great asset. I started off putting scent on a bumper and hiding in in short grass for training and working my way up to thicker and bigger cover. She wears a collar but has learned to turn back if I whistle. Most labs are good at learning how far is too far. There are exceptions in every breed though. Good luck on your choice.
 
Yeah, no doubt wild birds often like to move/run. I suppose a nice trait with a flusher is you can follow the dog until the bird sits for a moment or flushed in range.

The one problem is (if you hunt like I do--when it me and my dog or one other guy) you have to move fast at times as you move with the bird/birds. It's a great way to get in shape (lol) but when birds are moving through cattails it can wear on the muscle at times.



Nick
 
slidellkid said:
Don't most flushers hunt fairly close like 3-50 yards out?
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Yes, but if I let him move up on the bird he knows it's okay to do so because I'm right behind him--he's allowed to move up/faster. If we're tracking a moving bird it's usually at a fast pace walk or, sometimes right before the flush I'll start to run a bit if needed--as the bird knows we're getting close they'll pick up the pace. At any time I need him to stop the dog from moving in I'll call him off. Otherwise, he'll typically look back to make sure I'm right behind him. Though, I have owned flushing dogs in the past who needed a collar in order to pull them off hot sent from a moving bird.

As far as my pooches go/have gone most of our wild pheasant flushes are not like this but seem to be more common later season or in areas where birds are hunted often and they know the game.

Cross shot, with the dog being so close you really don't loss him. If they're buried in cattails (for example) you can see the cattails moving.

Nick
 
Have any of you flusher guys had a dog that barks when he's hot on the trail?

My older dog started doing this a while ago... it doesn't seem to make much of difference either way because I can tell by reading his body language and intensity when he's on a bird but that is a sure sign when I can't see him in cattails.
 
Usually I'm close enough to my dog to not have to worry about wondering where she is. She is usually looking back quite frequently to make sure I am keeping up. You do get a lab on occasion that needs a little electric stimuli to get them to slow up. My father had one that way. Great dog, just a bit hard headed when it came to getting what she was going after. Never heard of a dog barking when after a bird. Heard a beagel bark when after a rabbit before.
 
I would not be happy if my flusher worked at 3 yards. I prefer he stays at 20- 30. One of the big misunderstandings of non flusher guy's is that they just bumble around and stumble into a bird that the hunter would have found anyway. Not the case with the ones I have hunted with. To the original poster. My decision on a dog would be based on where I want to hunt. Colorado/ Kansas is far different then the Dakotas. In western Kansas where there might be a few birds in a 1/4 it is in your best interest to have a dog that covers a lot of ground. There is no way of telling how many birds are walked over or flush wild, but it happens. In Hevier cover I sure prefer a flusher. I like watching my dog at 30 yards or so hunting with me, instead of the next county hunting for himself. Just me. I am not a chaser anymore, too old and fat. Through collar conditioning my dog works in gun range, most of the time.
 
To the OP, I suggest hunting your intended quarry over both types (multiple different dogs from each category if you can) then make your decision based on what you would like.

But yes, pheasant will run out from under point at times. A smart dog learns how to relocate, and even do so in a way that pins the bird. But that takes a lot of bird contacts. On the plus side, pointers generally cover more ground.

How to train a flusher depends on your standards for your dogs, their expectations, and the manners you want. Try reading "Training Retrievers and Spaniels to Hunt 'Em Up" by George Hickox, or "Hup: Training Flushing Spaniels the American Way" by James Spencer. Both good reads. The standards I have means a lot of work with my spaniels. I expect a polished pattern (15-20 yards on each side, 10-15 yards in front), complete obedience, and a polished retrieve... including a retrieve to hand, and the ability to handle blinds on land and in water. All that requires time and consistency.

BUT!!! You can have a serviceable flushing dog if you have a solid "Hup/sit" command and a solid recall command if the genetics are good. Plus a lot of experience.

Hope that helps... And if you have trouble deciding, be like me and have one of each! :D
 
carptom1 said:
I am not a chaser anymore, too old and fat
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Well Tom, In that case it's time to move onto on of those flabber labs FC is always talking about. I've seen your pooch. He's Way too lean for an "old fat guy":D

Nick
 
1pheas4 said:
Well Tom, In that case it's time to move onto on of those flabber labs FC is always talking about. I've seen your pooch. He's Way too lean for an "old fat guy":D

Nick
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Nick,

This dog would be a track star if I let him. I noticed last year he pushed his limits more. He is fairly compliant mostly tone to bring him back. Occasionly he needs a low level buzz to adjust his attitude. MAybe 2 or 3 times a season. With the amount of birds he has seen the last few years he is fairly mannerly. My last one was hard headed, as he got older he listened less but slowed down some. Buddy is now 6, he is really in his prime. The thought of him slowing down kills me. It really is mostly about the breeding. I am not a very good trainer
 
carptom1 said:
It really is mostly about the breeding. I am not a very good trainer
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Me too Tom. I'm more of a pheasant guy vs. a dog/training guy. Though I do love bird dogs.

My pooch is about 6 too. It's nice at this age. They know what's going on. They work as a team. I think these are the years we get the most attached to our bird dogs. They seem to get us, and we get them---if that makes sense. There's almost a "pack like" connection brought about in the field when this occurs.

Nick
 
Seems like most dogs, with strong "prey drive", like to be track stars...and hunt by themselves. Max and Buddy make a great combination - very few fly out ahead; of course Carptomi is the consummate huntmaster and manages the hunters like a defensive football coach.

Which breed? Buy good stock and keep them on birds...lots of practice always helps and strong prey drive .

I agree with Tom: where are you hunting? This will usually dictate what kind of dog to use.
 
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In my opinion there is no better bird dog for pheasant than a English Springer Spaniel..it's what they are born to do! I would take a real close look at them if I were you but I am bias but for good reason! They will answer all your questions for you!
 
HollowWatcher said:
In my opinion there is no better bird dog for pheasant than a English Springer Spaniel..it's what they are born to do! I would take a real close look at them if I were you but I am bias but for good reason! They will answer all your questions for you!
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I agree!!!!
 
HollowWatcher said:
In my opinion there is no better bird dog for pheasant than a English Springer Spaniel..it's what they are born to do! I would take a real close look at them if I were you but I am bias but for good reason! They will answer all your questions for you!
Click to expand...

If I did not duck hunt I would own a springer. The Labrador is just so versatile.
 
sloth5202 said:
Have any of you flusher guys had a dog that barks when he's hot on the trail?

My older dog started doing this a while ago... it doesn't seem to make much of difference either way because I can tell by reading his body language and intensity when he's on a bird but that is a sure sign when I can't see him in cattails.
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I can't remember the last time I had a dog bark period. Maybe 30 years ago.
 
A man could search his whole life and not find a better pheasant dog than the field bred English Springer Spaniel, it's what they specialize in.
That's not to say the pointers can't do a fine on job on pheasants, just take a look at all the pictures on these Forums and you can see they are very successful. I love all the sporting dog breeds, but if I had to pick one breed to hunt just pheasants it would be a Springer.
I enjoy hunting behind the flushing breeds whether it be retrievers or spaniels because of the close hunting style. It's like having another member of your hunting party. You can't go wrong either way with a flusher or pointer with a well bred dog!
 
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