Fitting a shotgun

[Labradinger]

This was never a thing growing up. We just bought a gun that felt ok and went with it. I do have a couple shotguns with shims included but not real sure what to do with them. Ive read about guys (gunsmiths I assume?) who fit people to guns. Is there anyone that does this in the Sioux Falls area? Is this a deal where you have to pattern to see where youre hitting with every shim change?

 

[birddude]

I think there's a thread about this if you can find it. You'll find as with anything a lot of varying opinions. I have been fitted. I didn't think it helped my shooting but maybe I'm beyond help! I use the old method. Place the but in the fold of your elbow with a sweatshirt or something about what you normally hunt in. Adjust the length of pull so that your index finger hits the crease closest to the end of your finger. Hang an old sheet up at about 7- 10 steps. Spray paint a baseball size target on it. I shoulder and shoot quickly but don't rush. Or close my eyes, shoulder, open, put the bead on and shoot. Shoot until I blow a hole in the sheet. If the hole is on or slightly above, my hands and what's left of my brain will take care of the rest with practice. If I hit left or right the gun goes bye bye, or in your case experiment with the shims.. But 1st I just shoot it. One of the best things I've done for my shooting is I bought a whirly bird. I'll usually know if I like a gun or not after just a few straight aways. Good luck whichever way you go!

 

[Kismet]

Fitting a shotgun stock to you - Google Search

and more specifically:
a segment of one of the sites:
When searching for a shotgun that fits you or having one modified for your comfort level and safe, reliable handling, remember that you always want to fit the shotgun to you, not modify how you shoot to make the shotgun work. For a few tips on getting your shotgun fit right, I contacted a longtime friend at Browning to determine the key point of fitting a shotgun. He told me, “When you mount a shotgun, start by checking the distance between your thumb and nose as you’re looking down the barrel. You’ll need at least an inch. Any less and you’re probably going to suffer some recoil — especially when shooting heavy duck or turkey loads. This will cause your hand to smash into your nose. Most likely it will break your concentration and accuracy at the very least. At worst, it can cause a shooter to recoil and point the muzzle in an unsafe direction or drop the gun.”
Using that guideline as a starting point, when fitting a shotgun (preferably with an experienced gun- and stock-smith, or at least a qualified shotgun instructor who knows how to measure a student for proper fit), there are three specific measurements important in any stock. These measurements are “drop at comb,” “drop at heel” and “length of pull.”
Length of pull is the distance from the middle of the butt (recoil pad) to the trigger. A stock that is too long may catch under the armpit or drag on the lower shoulder during mounting and dismounting. It will feel uncomfortable and awkward and can markedly delay the fast execution of a shot. On the other hand, a stock that is too short may deliver more recoil to the shoulder and cheek.
When considering the length of pull that’s right for you, you should be wearing what you’re wearing when you’ll be shooting the gun. For instance, if you plan to wear several layers for cold-weather shooting, fitting the shotgun without those items while wearing only a t-shirt is asking for trouble. A quick and easy fix for many shooters is to add a slip-on recoil boot for use in warm months when you’re wearing minimal layers, as the boot naturally increases stock length. Those shooters then remove the boot in the cold months to compensate for their extra clothing.

Here is an easy way to measure the length of pull on a shotgun. Lay a tape across the buttstock to the trigger. Remember, the actual measurement of the length of pull is the distance from the middle of the trigger to the end of the gun’s buttstock.
Drop at comb has to do with a shotgunner’s sight picture. Since most shotguns have no rear sights, the shotgunner sights along a plane from breech to barrel muzzle to focus on the target. In effect, the shooter’s eye is the rear sight. Thus the amount of drop at the comb is extremely important in its effect on good or poor shooting. Should the comb be too low, the shooter’s eye will be too low when the gun is properly cheeked, and the gun will throw the charge below the mark. If the comb stands too high, the impact of the charge will consistently be above the target. In addition, the shooter must place his or her cheek against the comb of the stock at the same spot and in the same manner on each successive shot, otherwise the shooting will be erratic, sometimes pointing under the target and at other times over.
Buncha sites to review. Enjoy and be safe.

 

[Cass]

This was never a thing growing up. We just bought a gun that felt ok and went with it. I do have a couple shotguns with shims included but not real sure what to do with them. Ive read about guys (gunsmiths I assume?) who fit people to guns. Is there anyone that does this in the Sioux Falls area? Is this a deal where you have to pattern to see where youre hitting with every shim change?

That was the way I grew up too. We shot what we had, and made the best of it. Years later though a friend had one fitted and it really improved his shooting. When I finally bought a decent shotgun I decided to try it as well.

So in 2009, I had two shotguns fitted by Michael Murphy and Sons in Augusta, Kansas. From that fitting I learned my ideal LOP, and also the ideal angle of the butt pad, drop, offset, etc.. It's more than just measuring your frame and arm length, they look at your natural aiming point and the whole movement of shouldering the shotgun. We shot onto a pattern board to verify the measurements and point of impact.

They charge $200 for the first shotgun and $50 for each additional gun. They also did the stock modifications and butt pads for a reasonable price. I think it was well worth the price. They keep your measurements on file so you can reuse the information later.

 

[kick them up]

So I know a good fitting shotgun is important as I see it's benefits from my in line of work. I am also fortunate by working with a expert on the subject who taught me that there is more to it than just the LOP. Like stated earlier the cast of the gun, the drop at the heal and toe all make up part of the equation. Manufactures are catering to a large audience so guns are built for to meet those needs. That said, not everyone fits that mold so that is why I believe a guns need to fit the shooter. It helped me out greatly over the years.

Also a lot of guns now come with shim kits to adjust cast, or pitch. Our auto guns come with shims kits for that very reason. I pitched mine up using a 2% shim to get a better line of sight. If you have questions feel free to PM me.

The guy's in Augusta KS are great from what I have heard in the industry.

 

[matto]

I also used Michael Murphy and Sons in Augusta. The process was different than I expected, but it definitely helped. First we spent a few minutes in the shop working on length of pull, discussing the recoil pad I intended to add, and stance. Then we went outside and shot 5+/- rounds at the board from each barrel with a very tight choke from a very specific distance. It was "mount the gun and fire", rather than aim. He noted where the pattern hit the board and that told him how much bend to put in the stock and which direction. It was something like 1" on the board meant move the stock 1/16". The gun was a new-to-me Ithaca 200e, which had way too much drop. So they raised it (less drop and heel and comb) and added quite a bit of cast-off. Often with an off-the-rack gun you really have to look to see whether it's cast neutral, cast-off for a righty, or cast-on for a lefty. Mine has enough cast that people often comment on it when they first see it.

Having read way too many articles in Shooting Sportsman and similar magazines, I was expecting to run a couple boxes of shells through a "try-gun". Try-guns feature adjustments for nearly everything: LOP, cast, pitch, etc. Evidently you shoot them at flying targets until the fitter thinks it's right. Then they make your gun match the dimensions from the try-gun. I was looking forward to the try-gun, so a handful of shells onto a pattern board was a bit of a let down. But the results were good.

I think a modern semi or pump with shims would be similar to my experience. Shoot a pattern board in a natural mount-and-fire motion with different shims until the pattern hits where you want it. Shoot while wearing your typical hunting clothing. It makes a difference.

 

[Cass]

I also used Michael Murphy and Sons in Augusta. The process was different than I expected, but it definitely helped. First we spent a few minutes in the shop working on length of pull, discussing the recoil pad I intended to add, and stance. Then we went outside and shot 5+/- rounds at the board from each barrel with a very tight choke from a very specific distance. It was "mount the gun and fire", rather than aim. He noted where the pattern hit the board and that told him how much bend to put in the stock and which direction. It was something like 1" on the board meant move the stock 1/16". The gun was a new-to-me Ithaca 200e, which had way too much drop. So they raised it (less drop and heel and comb) and added quite a bit of cast-off. Often with an off-the-rack gun you really have to look to see whether it's cast neutral, cast-off for a righty, or cast-on for a lefty. Mine has enough cast that people often comment on it when they first see it.

Having read way too many articles in Shooting Sportsman and similar magazines, I was expecting to run a couple boxes of shells through a "try-gun". Try-guns feature adjustments for nearly everything: LOP, cast, pitch, etc. Evidently you shoot them at flying targets until the fitter thinks it's right. Then they make your gun match the dimensions from the try-gun. I was looking forward to the try-gun, so a handful of shells onto a pattern board was a bit of a let down. But the results were good.

I think a modern semi or pump with shims would be similar to my experience. Shoot a pattern board in a natural mount-and-fire motion with different shims until the pattern hits where you want it. Shoot while wearing your typical hunting clothing. It makes a difference.

Another thing I remember was the drill where they had me take my normal shooting stance and then bring up the gun and aim at a goose they had hanging from the ceiling. Then after doing that a few times, they had me close my eyes and bring up the gun and point at the same spot. If you are forcing/muscling the aim you will be way off and it becomes obvious. I do that drill myself now just to correct my position and stance.

 

[Hutcho]

I also used Micheal Murphy and sons. Overall a good experience and it definitely made an improvement. I wish I would have had them write the measurements down is my only gripe. There's been a few times I would have liked to have that paper when either buying a new gun or modifying an old one.

 

[Dion B]

? I shot a lot of competition targets when I was younger. I always wondered way the old shooters played with so many shooting gimmicks? I was young with great reflexes, good eyesight, muscle mass , and youth. I could pick up about any shotgun and hit the targets. I am most days a decent shot. Maybe I am just super average size? Never understood having a shotgun fitted?Unless you are built differently. No replacement for a clear mind and practice. I am now closer to 60 than 50 ,wear glasses have a bad shoulder, bad knees , but I shoot often, year round.

 

[Dion B]

Another thing I remember was the drill where they had me take my normal shooting stance and then bring up the gun and aim at a goose they had hanging from the ceiling. Then after doing that a few times, they had me close my eyes and bring up the gun and point at the same spot. If you are forcing/muscling the aim you will be way off and it becomes obvious. I do that drill myself now just to correct my position and stance.

Muscle memory do it for a few weeks ( 20 times a day) you will open your eyes and be on target. Shotguns are pointed

 

[BrowningCitori]

Fitting a shotgun wasn't a thing for me growing up either. I went to a professional gunfitter and stockmaker at age 40, best money I ever spent hunting equipment (had a custom stock made for my Beretta 687) I wouldn't shot a rifle that wasn't sighted in while hunting or hunt with a shotgun that wasn't fitted to me.

 

[Goosemaster]

This was never a thing growing up. We just bought a gun that felt ok and went with it. I do have a couple shotguns with shims included but not real sure what to do with them. Ive read about guys (gunsmiths I assume?) who fit people to guns. Is there anyone that does this in the Sioux Falls area? Is this a deal where you have to pattern to see where youre hitting with every shim change?

We never fitted a gun.Just went with it. My nephew has short arms, and may need a specially fitted gun.

 

[LC Smith]

I am 6'3" with long arms and have a terrible time with shotgun fit. Over the years I have found, through experience and research, what fit is for me. On my SxS guns, I mount the gun with eyes closed and when I open I need to be able to just barley see what I will call about 95% of the rib. I learned this for certain with the recent purchase of my new Citori 16ga White Lightening. When mounting I had 0% rib visibility and it showed in my shooting. I purchased a wedge to mount on the butt stock between the stock and the recoil pad, to change the pitch, and it worked! It made a huge difference in position and where the gun pointed. I could have probably gotten a similar result with sticking a pad on the stock to raise the comb, but I was not about to stick something on this particular piece of walnut! I hope this helps.

 

[gator1954]

This was never a thing growing up. We just bought a gun that felt ok and went with it. I do have a couple shotguns with shims included but not real sure what to do with them. Ive read about guys (gunsmiths I assume?) who fit people to guns. Is there anyone that does this in the Sioux Falls area? Is this a deal where you have to pattern to see where youre hitting with every shim change?

I am 6'3" with long arms and have a terrible time with shotgun fit. Over the years I have found, through experience and research, what fit is for me. On my SxS guns, I mount the gun with eyes closed and when I open I need to be able to just barley see what I will call about 95% of the rib. I learned this for certain with the recent purchase of my new Citori 16ga White Lightening. When mounting I had 0% rib visibility and it showed in my shooting. I purchased a wedge to mount on the butt stock between the stock and the recoil pad, to change the pitch, and it worked! It made a huge difference in position and where the gun pointed. I could have probably gotten a similar result with sticking a pad on the stock to raise the comb, but I was not about to stick something on this particular piece of walnut! I hope this helps.

Like you I’m 6’3” with long arms. That was an advantage playing basketball, but I was 50 before I realized what a fitted gun would do for my shooting. Wish I would have done it years before.

 

[Labradinger]

I am 6'3" with long arms and have a terrible time with shotgun fit. Over the years I have found, through experience and research, what fit is for me. On my SxS guns, I mount the gun with eyes closed and when I open I need to be able to just barley see what I will call about 95% of the rib. I learned this for certain with the recent purchase of my new Citori 16ga White Lightening. When mounting I had 0% rib visibility and it showed in my shooting. I purchased a wedge to mount on the butt stock between the stock and the recoil pad, to change the pitch, and it worked! It made a huge difference in position and where the gun pointed. I could have probably gotten a similar result with sticking a pad on the stock to raise the comb, but I was not about to stick something on this particular piece of walnut! I hope this helps.

I have my eye on a white Lightening 12 gauge but its a grand and the barrel is beat up pretty bad. Maybe 800 and have it re-blued, we’ll see. Anyway, the lop seems good with a coat on, flies right up to my shoulder.
Is the proper sight picture supposed to be being able to see some of the rib? The reason Im leaning toward a citori is because i hardly see any of the rib and mostly just the bead. Or this this a case by case type deal?
Ive come to the conclusion the lop on my affinity is just too long as i shoulder it inconsistently and on my bakail o/u, im often seeing the right side of the rib. I have a franchi 620vs and 612 vs that seem to fit right, with the nod going to the 620. The way the rib meets the receiver is different on the 612.
Ive been under the impression the less rib I see, the better.

 

[birddude]

Yah, I think rib picture is a matter of choice. I think anyone can learn to shoot either rib picture or not. The problem is most of us love guns as well as hunting birds. Of course, the more rib you see the higher the point of impact. Our brains will teach us where the bead needs to be to hit. then we switch to a gun with more drop and can't hit.

 

[Chestle]

You can use a mirror and look at it from the other end as well. Obviously with an unloaded shotgun.

 

[birddude]

You can use a mirror and look at it from the other end as well. Obviously with an unloaded shotgun.

View attachment 4915

That's cool. But that perfect sight picture is not as easy to repeat every time. If guys don't believe me try this. Mount in the mirror Like chestle says then grit your teeth. You just missed to your right and can't believe it because you know you had the bead on it.

 

[LC Smith]

I have my eye on a white Lightening 12 gauge but its a grand and the barrel is beat up pretty bad. Maybe 800 and have it re-blued, we’ll see. Anyway, the lop seems good with a coat on, flies right up to my shoulder.
Is the proper sight picture supposed to be being able to see some of the rib? The reason Im leaning toward a citori is because i hardly see any of the rib and mostly just the bead. Or this this a case by case type deal?
Ive come to the conclusion the lop on my affinity is just too long as i shoulder it inconsistently and on my bakail o/u, im often seeing the right side of the rib. I have a franchi 620vs and 612 vs that seem to fit right, with the nod going to the 620. The way the rib meets the receiver is different on the 612.
Ive been under the impression the less rib I see, the better.

It is all personal preference. I tried to get the fit on the O/U to match my SxS. The lower point of aim was not working well for me at all.

 

[Chestle]

That's cool. But that perfect sight picture is not as easy to repeat every time. If guys don't believe me try this. Mount in the mirror Like chestle says then grit your teeth. You just missed to your right and can't believe it because you know you had the bead on it.

Which is why most shotgun instructors recommend practicing your mount to achieve consistency. As you say, you can have the absolute perfect fit on a shotgun but it will only be perfect for a consistent mount.

If you change the mount, you change the POI. That happens in the field and at the range. It can be as simple as not keeping your head down on the stock; just raising your head. All you can do is try to be consistent.

However, having a well fitted shotgun helps achieve a consistent mount. It kinda of goes hand in hand. Just my 2 cents.