Drought is Good News for Pheasants!

[UGUIDE]

It looks like for 2017 UGUIDE is running 72 hunts...8 camps, 9 weeks...assuming each hunt has 6 guys, that is about 400+ hunters stepping afield for a 3-4 day hunt...do the math...you end up with about 3600 birds bagged...no disrespect to UGUIDE...he is doing a nice job...this is what you'd expect from a pay to hunt operation, guided or not...and his hunters are a notch or 3 above the level of most guided pay to hunt operations, IMO...they have dogs and know how to hunt. To the poster that plans on using the 2017 totals to compare the status of the SD bird population vs the prior year, I assume the harvest totals will be about the same...don't assume that the hunters hunted til dark in 2016....lots of limits probably occurred in a few hours...this year, limits may be had, but by hunting longer....so the harvest figures may look similar. may be not. Again, no disrespect, but if you have a total of 20,000 acres of habitat spread across 8 different farms (probably much more than that as far as huntable acres), and you turn 400-500 hunters loose over a 9 week timeframe, they are going to knock down 5,000-7,000 birds...i think at some point a 50% retrieve ratio was uttered by UGUIDE, which may have been a figure used for a portion of the season, or, the whole season, I don't know. The bottom line, this is a fine operation, and this is what happens when you simply work the numbers.

I am just one guy who doesn't do pay to hunt stuff, just love to hunt...normal year I probably host 5-6 hunts...sometimes 7...group size varies...but our annual harvest #'s get kind of eye-popping until you run the #'s...6 or 7 guys are going to normally harvest around 20 birds per day, 60, 80, or 100 per hunt....depending on trip length, obviously...x 5, 6, or 7 hunts...I hunt mostly private land, but rarely do I have over 1000 acres of habitat to hunt on a typical hunt...the farms I hunt change each hunt, depending on what is going on with that landowner...I have my 1/4, which we hunt twice each hunt...day 1, and the last day...that 1/4 would produce 400-500+ birds a season back in the day...and not just the peak, peak years. much less than that now, but still a good piece of ground. again, I tip my hat to UGUIDE...I probably will become a customer some day, as my land partner is about 15 years my senior, and at some point if he wants out, I will probably suggest we sell, and then I will do more wandering, and not be tied to one area...I would still hunt that area a good deal, but I want to hunt the Lemmon area in the worst way! I want to live there, honestly. I will hunt sharp tails ALOT more than I do...favorite game bird to hunt and to eat....but you have about a month to hunt them before they get spooky and the pheasant seasons open and make land access harder....

I did a minute of research: the 2013 blizzard out west occurred right after temps in the 80's...the cattle hadn't grown winter coats. they were in summer pastures, not protected winter pastures. ground was unfrozen, they went to low lying areas and got stuck. rain soaked them first, then the heavy snow and high winds (70 mph) froze them and they died. No real correlation to pheasants...sure, lots of birds froze, as happens in storms like that...but lots of birds made it to heavy cover. A hot, dry drought smack dab in the peak of the hatch is devastating...hey, these birds have been around for over a century...here, that is...we know they are survivors...BUT CAPTAIN UGUIDE, WE CANNOT DEFY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS! If Trump needs another press spokesperson, assuming Huckabee's daughter loses the gig sometime, you could do it! You "stay on message" with the best of them! oops! wrong thread! meant for a thread in the SOUTH DAKOTA section...sorry. but I will leave it.

we need some Blaze orange hats for UGUIDE: MAKE SD GREAT AGAIN!!!! hey, he is kind of doing it...no kidding.

Here is a blinding flash of the NOT SO OBVIOUS. Remember, common sense is not all that common. (Not pointed at BB because we love his posts!)

It was doom and gloom the night before opener. NO BIRDS says the experts! http://www.bhpioneer.com/news/state...cle_47aeee34-40c1-11e3-ae50-0019bb2963f4.html

Here is the report from our Opener Group at the Timberlake Camp (Oct. 19, 2013):

"Here’s a testimonial on our West River trip. Feel free to cut it up or use it however you want. Thanks a bunch.

Chris,
Just wanted to fill you in on another great experience at a UGUIDE camp. Our opening weekend hunt at the West River property left absolutely nothing to be desired. I must admit that I was a bit concerned about the number of birds we would see after reading the survey reports from the Game, Fish and Parks and realizing that all of the crops were still in the fields due to the recent wet conditions. Those fears were quickly put aside as we saw hundreds of birds each of our three days of hunting at West River. Our 13 man group downed our allotted 39 birds each day despite the difficult hunting conditions (VERY wet and quite windy). During our return trip home, members of our group talked to a lot of different hunters and we heard very few stories of hunters bagging their daily limits – much less downing 13 man limits for 3 straight days! " (date of email to me was 11/1/2013)

 

[benelli-banger]

chris, I would never doubt that your camps have the VERY BEST hunting....I wouldn't promote your operation otherwise. I stand by what I said earlier...a period of extremely, hot, dry weather smack dab in the heart of of chick hatching timeframe is much worse for the birds than a freak blizzard in early october...sure, both are going to kill birds...the drought is much worse, IMO...but I am not a pheasant biologist...but I read what they say...and I read what you said in your "summer 2017 pheasant forecast" on your website...that is largely what i have been responding to for the past few months...but at the end of the day, we both want and hope good bird #'s...let's hope! by the way, it is VERY obvious that birds die in blizzards...especially with lots of wind, and not enough cover...they sit facing into the wind, to keep the wind from blowing into their feathers...and their nostrils ice up and the suffocate...if there is cover close by, they gravitate to that if they can...again, for strippers, you need lots of ones, a sound system, a stage, booze, and a pole...for pheasants, you need food, water, and cover...especially hearty winter cover for the blizzards...that's what I know. theoretical, not empirical...at least in one of the examples...

 

[James O]

Hi BB
My interest in uguide numbers is to see if he can repeat his 2016 numbers
Even in a bad year.That would prove that his farming practices work.
His camps are also spread across state to give a better picture.
SD would be pretty stupid to put out 40% decline in pheasants if it was
Not true.So we will find out from hunters on this site if numbers are down or not when season opens.Maybe start another post asking hunters on
What they think of this year compared to 2016
Jim

 

[benelli-banger]

Hi BB
My interest in uguide numbers is to see if he can repeat his 2016 numbers
Even in a bad year.That would prove that his farming practices work.
His camps are also spread across state to give a better picture.
SD would be pretty stupid to put out 40% decline in pheasants if it was
Not true.So we will find out from hunters on this site if numbers are down or not when season opens.Maybe start another post asking hunters on
What they think of this year compared to 2016
Jim

Jim--UGUIDE certainly knows more about farming than me...and about pheasants, perhaps. But this isn't rocket science...let's not overthink this! The reason SD had so many birds back in the late '50's and into the '60's was the soil bank program...farmers were either incented or required to idle a fair amount of farmland, which was analogous to CRP as far as what occurred...lots of habitat. My dad and 3 buddies would have the farmer buy their licenses for them midweek, they would show up friday, and leave with 100 birds on sunday... 25 possession per hunter. There was no magic formula for how they "farmed"...actually, back then, the fields were very dirty, which was perfect for pheasants...lots of weeds, etc, in the crop fields. Soil bank went away, and guess what? so did the birds! DUH! Fast forward to the mid '80's, the US wanted to punish Russia, so we had a grain embargo...CRP was created...to take acreage out of production you have to find a way to motivate the farmers to do it...CRP was it. What happened? Pheasants EXPLODED within a few years! Then things changed with funding, crop prices, land prices, input prices, and guess what? CRP acreage has dropped...and so have pheasant #'s!!!! Highly-evolved farming practices are great...I am all for them. But give the birds decent nesting cover in the spring, decent winter cover with thermal attributes (cattails, tree belts) to survive the harsh winters that occur, and decent prairie grasses for day to day life year round, and of course, they need food and water....and preferably, those last two items need to be fairly close to their habitat so they don't get caught in the middle of a wide open expanse when a blizzard hits or a predator spots them...and pheasants will do OK as long as mother nature doesn't throw us a curve ball, which happened this year in much of pheasant land. I don't need UGUIDE's harvest #'s or anybody else's anecdotal data from this board to tell me that the pheasants got hammered this summer in much of SD, ND and MT....the reports from this board confirm what the biologists have said from those three states...I don't know why anybody feels like this has yet to be proved. Of course there will be birds...half, or even a quarter, of what was there last year still provides hunting...we had #'s like this 4 years ago...there were still some birds killed, obviously. having good bird #'s is VERY SIMPLE...but not easy...or inexpensive!

If anybody wants to record data that I think is important, keep track of the rooster to hen ratio while hunting...I care more about that than roosters killed...MANY outfits proclaim that they are strictly "wild birds only"...MANY release roosters...some release hens in the spring, but mostly it is roosters in the fall. So keep track of hens...and the young roosters harvested...that is of interest to me.

Here are a few recommended "farming practices" that an ignorant, non-farmer like me can suggest...that will GUARANTEE more pheasants: leave fences standing; leave tree belts standing; leave cattail sloughs standing...DO NOT FARM EVERY SQUARE INCH OF YOUR GROUND! NO HABITAT MEANS NO WILDLIFE! drive SW through MN on hwy 60 out of Mankato...black dirt EVERYWHERE!!!!!! Don't do that...do the opposite...you may then have some wildlife!!!! If Bill Gates woke up today and decided he was going to deviate from his mission of saving human lives around the globe via his foundation, and instead, wanted to revive pheasant numbers in the high plains, he wouldn't need to hire geeky scientists to devise newfangled farming practices...just recreate the conditions that existed 50-60 years ago in SD...yes, turn the clock back half a century...just do what they were...or weren't doing...back then. Same result would happen. There would be birds everywhere.

 

[benelli-banger]

Hi BB
My interest in uguide numbers is to see if he can repeat his 2016 numbers
Even in a bad year.That would prove that his farming practices work.
His camps are also spread across state to give a better picture.
SD would be pretty stupid to put out 40% decline in pheasants if it was
Not true.So we will find out from hunters on this site if numbers are down or not when season opens.Maybe start another post asking hunters on
What they think of this year compared to 2016
Jim

Jim--UGUIDE'S harvest #'s could turn out to be very good...hope they are. That wouldn't disprove the GFP survey results...7 or 8 farms do not tell you anything other than how the hunting was on those farms...take it in consideration with what everyone else has to say...here, and other sources...I can spare you the time and energy...bird #'s are down substantially in most of SD, ND, and Eastern MT...but again, there are still millions of birds in SD alone...those with good dogs and who aren't afraid to walk a lot will find birds...3 roosters a day aren't that hard to come by if you are hunting 6 hours+ per day...much of the season it may be hot...or cold...or windy...or full of crusty snow...or the dog is walking right behind you, hot and tired...again, it is simple...but not easy!!!!

 

[benelli-banger]

Here is a blinding flash of the NOT SO OBVIOUS. Remember, common sense is not all that common. (Not pointed at BB because we love his posts!)

It was doom and gloom the night before opener. NO BIRDS says the experts! http://www.bhpioneer.com/news/state...cle_47aeee34-40c1-11e3-ae50-0019bb2963f4.html

Here is the report from our Opener Group at the Timberlake Camp (Oct. 19, 2013):

"Here’s a testimonial on our West River trip. Feel free to cut it up or use it however you want. Thanks a bunch.

Chris,
Just wanted to fill you in on another great experience at a UGUIDE camp. Our opening weekend hunt at the West River property left absolutely nothing to be desired. I must admit that I was a bit concerned about the number of birds we would see after reading the survey reports from the Game, Fish and Parks and realizing that all of the crops were still in the fields due to the recent wet conditions. Those fears were quickly put aside as we saw hundreds of birds each of our three days of hunting at West River. Our 13 man group downed our allotted 39 birds each day despite the difficult hunting conditions (VERY wet and quite windy). During our return trip home, members of our group talked to a lot of different hunters and we heard very few stories of hunters bagging their daily limits – much less downing 13 man limits for 3 straight days! " (date of email to me was 11/1/2013)

Chris--that storm left lots of snow in some areas (56"), and very little in other areas West River...how much did your camp get? Not drifts...what did the NWS report for snowfall total? Looking at the maps from the storm, if your camp is about straight west of Mobridge an hour or so, I don't think you were in the bullseye of the heaviest snow...far from it...maybe I am wrong about that, but it appears Spearfish was the winner of that storm...Dupree got about 14", and you are further east from there, where there was less snow...yes, it may have been doom and gloom in parts of W SD...but that is a large area...I am not so sure your location was impacted by the heavy snow like many other areas were...I heard from a local out there that it was mostly rain in timber lake...west about 20 miles you were into snow, around isabelle...not sure if your camp even got 6" of snow...maybe you did...when spoken about in general terms, encompassing 30,000 square miles or more, it does sound dramatic...

the nws map for the storm total shows you were in the 3-6" band, and by oct 6 the satellite pic shows the snow was gone where you are...rain, and freezing rain, can be a bitch for the birds for sure...and hunters, too...but let's be clear..your camp didn't get feet and feet of snow...it got inches and inches, from what I see...and from what my contact at the electric coop recalls, and he was up in the chopper assessing their lines...like i said, he said you got into the snow around isabel....and that is where he first saw dead cattle...about 20 miles west of timber lake. that article you posted earlier in the thread talked about dead pheasants in areas where there was lots of snow...makes for a good story, 4 years later...but the question is: did your camp get a lot of snow? Doubt it...your hunter, in his testimonial, refers to wet conditions...not snowy conditions...they killed 39 birds and had a ball! you done good...and lucked out that the blizzard spared you. you are a good promoter, that is for sure...."It was doom and gloom the night before opener! No birds, say the experts!" .... really????? the same experts who you discredited all summer?

 

[James O]

Drought

How about raising out of state hunting license only,
not residence .And using that money for better
Habitat on public land.I know some people won't
Like that but things are changing and if something is
Is not done soon it will be pay to hunt only
I travel from CA every year to hunt and I
Want to pay to hunt.If I lived there i would not
Pay to hunt because I would be doing some
Scouting and know where to go that would
Be fun.For out of staters who are on a budget
Paying an extra $50.00 per year for lic and getting
To hunt could public land it would be worth it
If things don't change only people with money
Will be able to hunt.
Personally I would rather hunt 5or6 hours and get
Some good shots than get my limit in 45 min.

 

[UGUIDE]

Chris--that storm left lots of snow in some areas (56"), and very little in other areas West River...how much did your camp get? Not drifts...what did the NWS report for snowfall total? Looking at the maps from the storm, if your camp is about straight west of Mobridge an hour or so, I don't think you were in the bullseye of the heaviest snow...far from it...maybe I am wrong about that, but it appears Spearfish was the winner of that storm...Dupree got about 14", and you are further east from there, where there was less snow...yes, it may have been doom and gloom in parts of W SD...but that is a large area...I am not so sure your location was impacted by the heavy snow like many other areas were...I heard from a local out there that it was mostly rain in timber lake...west about 20 miles you were into snow, around isabelle...not sure if your camp even got 6" of snow...maybe you did...when spoken about in general terms, encompassing 30,000 square miles or more, it does sound dramatic...

the nws map for the storm total shows you were in the 3-6" band, and by oct 6 the satellite pic shows the snow was gone where you are...rain, and freezing rain, can be a bitch for the birds for sure...and hunters, too...but let's be clear..your camp didn't get feet and feet of snow...it got inches and inches, from what I see...and from what my contact at the electric coop recalls, and he was up in the chopper assessing their lines...like i said, he said you got into the snow around isabel....and that is where he first saw dead cattle...about 20 miles west of timber lake. that article you posted earlier in the thread talked about dead pheasants in areas where there was lots of snow...makes for a good story, 4 years later...but the question is: did your camp get a lot of snow? Doubt it...your hunter, in his testimonial, refers to wet conditions...not snowy conditions...they killed 39 birds and had a ball! you done good...and lucked out that the blizzard spared you. you are a good promoter, that is for sure...."It was doom and gloom the night before opener! No birds, say the experts!" .... really????? the same experts who you discredited all summer?

All I'm saying is mother nature and pheasants are both very mysterious and I give them a lot of credit for that. Way too mysterious to predict, forecast or speculate on. More than the "no birds, see ya later, always next year" rant that is prevalent on this forum. And that's what I've learned after 35 years of chasing pheasants and 15 of farming for them.