Dogs First Hunting Season Question

G

gjw

Well-known member
Hi all, my 18 month old GSP missed her first hunting season due to her coming into heat, ruined the season for her to be honest. Been working on recall, shooting over her and whoa. She's been doing well on these. She has very intense points, but does tend to creep/cat walk on the birds at times (the birds BTW are just robins and the like, I have no access to pigeons etc).

Anyway, been reading some articles/books on training and there seems to be a school of thought to let the dog do her own thing the first year (find, locate etc) without much control. The other school is more or less you need total control at all times.

Which school of thought do you think is the best or is there another.

Any advise on what to do for her first hunting season will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Greg
 
Greg,

I assume that the robins were being sight pointed. That really is not anything that will help your dog develop.

Birds being pointed from scent is what you need. The more exposure to birds before the season the better off you will be. I would see if there are any people in your area that are training dogs, they will likely have pigeons and may be able train with you.

Basically the way you stop the creeping is to use a launcher. If the dog creeps after stopping to point, you launch the bird. Soon they learn not to move or the bird will flush. There is a book "Training with Mo" that would be a help to you.


Advice for the first hunting season. Do Not shoot birds that are not pointed.... period... You have a young dog that is already creeping a little, if you shoot birds that are bumped up, you dog will soon become a flushing dog. You do not want to have to fix that. I do not know where you are, but if you have Wild Bob White quail, I would focus on them in this first season rather than pheasants, it that is an option. They will hold better for your young dog.

Oh and have fun, and make it fun for the dog too.
 
Thanks Steve for the good advise. I live in ND so no wild quail. I'll look around and see if I can find some pigeons or a trainer that may have some. I appreciate your thoughts...as I said I'll give it a try.

Thanks!

Greg
 
I consider creeping, catwalking, and self point resetting to be positives in a dog so long as it's not actually flushing. I suppose a trial judge would regard them as negatives, but if your main goal is to put some birds in the bag and then on the table and enjoy a team effort with your dog, I'd want the dog to move with the bird on its own. My Brit points and resets repeatedly on a moving bird. One of the most enjoyable challenges afield for me is trying to keep up with the dog at such times - it's so physically demanding. Season before last I was hunting a crest in a half section of CRP when my dog pointed, broke, repointed, broke, on and on for 150 - 200 yards. Finally the cock flushed and I bagged him even though I was panting from the yomp. I regard it as the most satisfying wing shot I ever made, and it was made possible by what I regard as wonderful dog work. Of course, this is not something that you could do while hunting with others as part of a coordinated skirmish line moving afield.

SetterNut gave good advice too.
 
Last edited:
as for control ur dog should be in control at all times meaning u say come here its does no matter what u say whoa it stops no matter what etc. ur dog should have basic obedience in the field so it does not run wild in the field once it catch bird sent

the creaping and pointing on robins is not real hunt traing just a board dog trying to find something to do... a check cord and u telling the dog to whoa on them could help a lil... but like setternut said ur dog is pointing by sight when my dog was a pup u could throw a toy bird dowb in front of her and she would point it didnt help while hunting...

ur dog needs to learn to point using its nose... catch a pigeon or order a pheasant quail etc. drag it around and let ur dog track it and eventually point it at 300$ i doubt u will buy a bird launcher so keep it simple drag the birds around let yr dog work into the wind to find it and try to work whoa into that to stop creaping... us a 30 ft check cord to help ur dog whoa then move to e coller etc.

all i can say is my dog hunts in heat and the only way u can get a hunting dog is to hunt it ALOT there really is no subsatute for real life hunting for ur dog preserve hunting can also be training it would be my personal choice if i was u... hunt preserves b4 the real thing if ur still training close to the season or when u think ur dog is ready test it at the preserve... to get a hardcore birddog like what we see on tv ur dog needs hundreds of bird contacts its like pro sports teams they practice practice practice!!! this is the preseason for our dogs...

good luck hope all works out for you... and ur dog will come into heat about the same time this yr i assume so ur best bet is to hunt through it seen many dogs in heat hunting they still wanted to hunt all day...
 
Last edited:
they hole chase n ur dog as it tracks and reposition thing it does and will happen on runners but u should not have to chase ur pointer around or follow them as hard as a flusher??? some dogs have noses that make them stop far away from birds and they will have to reposition and or point the bird lots of times b4 the flush & shot each season others once they point they are holding that bird write there 4 u they pin birds on the regular... i also tend to hunt thick stuff to limit non stop running so maybe that helps im not a sea of grass hunter unless im chaseing prairie grouse... they hold great for pointing dogs
 
Last edited:
I don't think it matters on when you steady your dog. If you want to let them have fun and bust birds the first year that is a fine thought process or you don't ever allow them to creep from day one.

The thing that matters is that after you START training them to be steady, creeping is no longer acceptable at any time (unless you don't care about them being steady)

When you start the process is less important than following through 100% once you have begun
 
starting out

you ask ten guy's, guess what you will get. I am against tight control. let the dog hunt, point is built into the dog and if it ain't, find another dog. the dog in the field isn't likely to make anymore mistakes than you will, mostly fewer. the real question I have is why you can't find some birds to train with. surely there is a barn someplace where you can trap pigeons, a game preserve you can go to or buy a bird from, go to the local feed store, often they will have a list of somebody that have pigeons to sell, take the dog out into bird country in another month, after the chicks can fly and take it hunting, you might bring a check cord and a pair of gloves with you but get out there. several years ago dove hunting in Kansas, during the cooler part of the day, I had my female torrey, about 6 mo. old with me and in two days she was able to find and point over 85 birds, in two days she was just about a broke dog, ready to go. you could do something similar. just be careful of the heat and have water with you. good luck but go and do something

cheers
 
I would also add be very gentle on correction, and very enthusiastic on success. If your dog does anything right let her know how proud you are of her. Make this first year fun. I would suggest hunting alone as much as possible. You won't feel the pressure of some other hunters judgement on you or your dog. And that way you can take your time, reposition her when she makes a mistake, not feel pressured to keep up with anyone else.

You want this dog to love hunting for you. You want to see that joy in her face when she points, you put the bird up, knock it down, and she retrieves.

Just yesterday I was transferring some old photos to my new computer and came across a picture of Murphy's first bird. We were in SD and he was 8 months old. Pointed, I shot, he retrieved. Nothing better in a bird hunter's year!!

One last thing. Don't worry about getting your dog perfect. Rick Smith will tell anyone he works with, that his dog is going to be a lot different than your dog. Rick expects dam near perfection...but it is what he does for a living. You want your dog to be at a place where you enjoy hunting with it. He called it "the good enough dog."

Have fun.
 
good enough

the late dave duffy would say the same thing, if you just want a wonderful hunting companion, what diff. does it make if the dog drops the retrieve so you have to move to get it, ya got the bird, be happy, if it will sit like my divot does with the bird in its mouth and pose, great, but so what, his mother never heard of doing something cool like that, but so what, she points, honors, retrieves and I get the bird, that's what. eventually if necessary, you can pull the dog in but it is likely you will never know enough to make the dog go. be careful on control for awhile, If the dog is too far out, find thicker cover, if it is underfoot, shut up and find thinner cover, do what ever you can but shoot birds over it, I don't believe for a second that a bumped bird should be allowed to fly away and any harm that may, but probably not, can be easily corrected. I have yet to have a problem that way in over 40 years and you are not likely too either. go for it, relax and have a great time, there is a good chance your hunting buddy is more b.s. than perfection ignore him

cheers
 
BritChaser said:
I consider creeping, catwalking, and self point resetting to be positives in a dog so long as it's not actually flushing. I suppose a trial judge would regard them as negatives, but if your main goal is to put some birds in the bag and then on the table and enjoy a team effort with your dog, I'd want the dog to move with the bird on its own. My Brit points and resets repeatedly on a moving bird. One of the most enjoyable challenges afield for me is trying to keep up with the dog at such times - it's so physically demanding. Season before last I was hunting a crest in a half section of CRP when my dog pointed, broke, repointed, broke, on and on for 150 - 200 yards. Finally the cock flushed and I bagged him even though I was panting from the yomp. I regard it as the most satisfying wing shot I ever made. Of course, this is not something that you could do while hunting with others as part of a coordinated skirmish line moving afield.

SetterNut gave good advice too.
Click to expand...

I love it when a dog does that. It takes a pointing a dog a lot of exposure to develop that skill.
 
BTW, all these guys posting on here have some great advice with a lot of emphasis on making it fun for the dog. Good luck!!
 
Thanks all for all the wonderful advise and support! I sure do appreciate it. Rather than get anal and fret and fuss, this year we're going to have fun and enjoy being in the field. After she gets the hang of it (I'm lucky as she is a smart dog), then I can go on and polish her skills. I'm also lucky as I have two good partners that understand dogs and won't go nuts when she makes a mistake (and she will). One other is not so kind, oh well!

In short I'm going to hunt the crap out of her and have a good time!

Thanks!!!!

Greg
 
gjw said:
Thanks all for all the wonderful advise and support! I sure do appreciate it. Rather than get anal and fret and fuss, this year we're going to have fun and enjoy being in the field. After she gets the hang of it (I'm lucky as she is a smart dog), then I can go on and polish her skills. I'm also lucky as I have two good partners that understand dogs and won't go nuts when she makes a mistake (and she will). One other is not so kind, oh well!

In short I'm going to hunt the crap out of her and have a good time!

Thanks!!!!

Greg
Click to expand...

if you have a smart dog and it gets the hang of it, you as a hunter will never know what she knows while she is in the field, you can't see, you can't hear and your nose doesn't work and your thinking, (brain) in likely to get in the way. the dog has ya beat

cheers
 
Frangler said:
I love it when a dog does that. It takes a pointing a dog a lot of exposure to develop that skill.
Click to expand...

I like them to hold until I release them to relocate. My older setter will then swing out down wind and find the running bird. He has a pretty fair amount of experience. But basically it is personal preference, but I will run mine in a trial every once in a while, and creeping is not a good thing there.
 
relocating

on pheasants especially, a dog has to be able to do it, it really becomes a crap shoot however as most pheasants don't really like to be relocated or bothered by the damn dog. frequently is works out for the better for an experienced dog but really depends on the rooster. bogey, my dog that went to that great wheat field in the sky last fall was smart enough to know what was happening and circle around and come at the bird from a different direction, ie: cut the bird off. if the dog will hold while the pheasant is escaping, you are likely to loose the bird anyway, if he will hold till being released, the release command just may spook the bird also. the exciting thing is to watch the dog, you can see the wheels turning in its brain trying to figure things out, some guy around here once said, trust the dog, do it. I think one thing that hunter's seem to be oblivious about is when they approach a dog on point and things go wrong is that the dog catches hell. the problem is really with the hunter. the pheasant really isn't worried about the dog, it sees danger like that all day long, what causes the problem is the noise coming at him from someplace else, so now the rooster has two things to worry about and that is what causes the problem, of course it is the dog that is blamed, the wife would work but she is probably at home so ya can't yell at her

cheers

cheers
 
I'm with setternut, do not shoot birds the pup flushes or you'll train a flushing dog. It's hard to let a bird fly off, but the patience will pay off. I have 3 brothers. Two of them understand what I am working on with the young dog, the third does not. He doesn't have the patience and has to shoot at everything. I won't take him with one of my young dogs, only when they've got a couple seasons under their belt.

I have an acquaintance who has an older setter and a younger GSP. The GSP really runs compared to our setters. Hardly ever see it in the grouse woods. Goes on point and by the time you get there with gun it's bumped the bird and no bird. He has little control over this dog. I hunted with this combination one time, that was the last. Now when the guy calls, I'm busy.

I disagree with those who don't think a pointing dog can successfully relocate and hold a moving rooster. My current and last dog both handled running roosters in SD that finally held for me to flush. A smart dog will figure it out. All of my setters used their nose and the wind to advantage. If they hold until I can close, then relocate, their nose will guide them.
 
mustistuff its 2 different subjects 1 is a dog relicating and bumping a bird doing so or slowly creeping forward towards the bird and bumping or flushing it..

the other subject is blaming a dog who is soildly holding point and a hunter walking in for a flush or shot bumps the bird how can people blame there dog for the latter of the 2???

if ur dog is smart dont let it get lazy and think its ok to flush birds b4 u tell it to etc. it will learn faster if u just keep it simple he points the bird u flush it shoot it say go get it and love the dog to death when he brings the bird back to ur hand...

dogs and hunters are a team u put the dog in the best possible habitat or area holding birds etc. then just follow ur dog u both will look like champs if u do that routinely...my dog will hunt anywear i tell her to but its my job to pick the best spot to let her run...

if u have a dog that creeps and bust birds all the time u can never trust that dog to range out like pointers are supposed to in theory so u r left with a flusher if thats the case and it does not bother u sweet u both will be happy... pinning and holding bird is learned after many many bird contacts there is no subsatute...

to save frustration in the wild birds fields u mite want to hit up a few canned hunt areas to put ur dog on birds b4 the real game starts its a pet peive of mine when guys try to train there dog in the field on a real hunt thats what the off season is for u will know write away if ur dogs ready to hunt wild birds or will just get drunk of the 1st pheasant scentbit catches and u spend the rest of ur day yelling for a dog who is happy to be just chase n birds for once been there done thay its no fun for anybody u may be shareing a hunt with...
 
Last edited:
creeping

for a starter, no dog has any control over making the bird sit, the bird will sit if it wants too and will leave the area if it can. a dog should know if the bird as moved and should try to relocate, often not possible, this has absolutely nothing to do with a dog being untrained, too eager or whatever. a dog should try to be restrained, in control but he can't make the bird mind so to speak. I am not speaking about a dog that is not trained ie:, trying to catch the bird or thinks it's a flusher. two different things.

cheers
 
i like ranger rick agree with setternut i like my dog to hold point untill i release it or say ok etc. a dog relocating on its own can bump bird i dont see a down side to a dog holding untill released ??? u can just release it and do it all over again... no dog can know when a bird will flush once it gets to close repositioing so why not air on the safe side???

i tend to think a dog doing a end around and cutt n off birds is a dog that can make birds hold??? same with a dog that can speed up once trailing and catch up to runners the bird only is thinking about that dog and gives shooters time to move up to dogs... if u have trouble with runners hunt sloughs reeds and cattails they hold in them better for me the then in just ez walking grasses...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top