Dog Training Question

There is a different scent between them, I have a couple of dogs that i can telll if they are working a rooster or a hen, the excitement level is way higher on the roosters,
They may associate no retrieve with the hen smell, I dont really know but that is my opinion....
 
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I believe we shot Roosters
 
homeboy said:
Do you believe if you only shoot rosters that your dog will pass by hens and hunt rosters only?
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Don't you wish! :) I have been hunting pheasants for over 50 years and I have never seen a dog that could tell the difference between a hen and a rooster.
 
@HighTailSetters - LOL, thx 4 clarifying the ROOSTER thing! :D

I absolutely do believe a dog can learn the difference between a rooster & hen w/combo of slightly different scents & shoot/don't-shoot, AND show way more excitement toward roosters...But no way in H*#! do I believe anyone can train a dog to totally "pass by" hens in favor of a rooster!!! Talk is cheap & shootin roosters don't prove nothin...

There are only so many ways to prove the theory (with ample/reliable witnesses) if anyone thinks that their dog can...Perhaps, on a game-farm/release-hunt set out a thick brace of birds equally mixed with hens & roosters, turn the dog loose with an unbiased party keeping a tally sheet on rooster vs hen flushes & see what happens? Better yet, if it really werks - why not turn a dozen hens & 1 rooster loose in a field - if the dog flushes one hen, deal's off!!! I got some money burnin a hole in my pocket...Anybody wanna take up that bet with me as a witness??? If you win, I might make a really sweet offer on the dog!!! :eek: :p :cheers:
 
I always thought "my boy" could tell the difference, but I think it was the fact that if a bird wouldn't sit still (a runner) you knew it was a rooster. Therefore if you knew, that meant he knew, you know what i'm saying?;)
 
I'm not sure if they can tell the difference but I do know this; the lab that hunts with TAZ definitely knows the difference when you yell "hen". As soon as a bird flushes he is on the run to retrieve but when you yell hen he immediatly begins to hunt again. If it's a rooster and shots are fired then he's on the bird like nobodys business. It takes a "no bird" call to shut him down.
 
That is all urban legend and myth. Yes there is a difference in scent, sound, site...I have labrador retreivers and I know that when a bird flushes, I train my dogs to sit to flush and shot.

Meaning, when a bird flushes, they are not chasing the bird down from behind or all that. They are steady and/or sitting to the flushes or shot and they don't move until I release them or send them on their retrieve.

This can be done and is. I have judged and ran NAHRA hunt tests and in the Senior category we used bird traps/launchers to test a dogs ability to be steady to wing and shot.

Greg
 
Thanks for your replies

I posted this question because I got a new dog in mid December and have had a terrible time getting him into a situation for me to drop a roster. He is hunting pheasant, but not once have I had a snow balls chance at dropping a roster. Every time he finds hens, they just fly away and I am thinking he is confussed about the entire situation. I don't hunt hens, but I think my question has been answered.
 
Homeboy - don't know your style or if ur noisy or quiet with your dog directions, but late-season roosters are tough on anybody (much less with a new dog and/or hunter)...General rule of thumb = hens-hold-tighter/roosters-run-more...If ur dog gets hot on the trail of a runner, especially if it zig-zags, circles or doubles back - just let him go, grab onto his tail & stay with him AND be ready to shoot! ;)
 
Interesting question and one we all have an opinion on. It sure would be boring if my dog only pointed of flushed roosters and it would scare the crap out of me if he by-passed the hens and I stepped on them. I also used to think that all of the runners were roosters. But unless they can change sex on the run that also got put into the myth catagory. As far as smell goes, I don't if there is a difference or if the dog can tell. Some say there is but then how about male and female quail, chukar? and can the dog tell the difference between them? Hell I have a tough time telling the diffenence in the air......Ok not really, other wise I'll get rash of get glasses or stay home comments. But if your dog points, flushes, retrieves and is under control, then you have a dog worth hunting behind. Enjoy
 
Roosters Only?

Interesting question and one we all have an opinion on. It sure would be boring if my dog only pointed of flushed roosters and it would scare the crap out of me if he by-passed the hens and I stepped on them. I also used to think that all of the runners were roosters. But unless they can change sex on the run that also got put into the myth catagory. As far as smell goes, I don't if there is a difference or if the dog can tell. Some say there is but then how about male and female quail, chukar? and can the dog tell the difference between them? Hell I have a tough time telling the diffenence in the air......Ok not really, other wise I'll get rash of get glasses or stay home comments. But if your dog points, flushes, retrieves and is under control, then you have a dog worth hunting behind. Enjoy
 
hen said:
Homeboy - don't know your style or if ur noisy or quiet with your dog directions, but late-season roosters are tough on anybody (much less with a new dog and/or hunter)...General rule of thumb = hens-hold-tighter/roosters-run-more...If ur dog gets hot on the trail of a runner, especially if it zig-zags, circles or doubles back - just let him go, grab onto his tail & stay with him AND be ready to shoot! ;)
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I have been hunting pheasant in Colorado and Kansas since the early 80's. I may be a rockie on this forum, but not in the field. I asked this question because I had a male Beagle early on that would go right past hens and hunt rosters. His female litter mate would trail along behind and flush the hens. NO LIE!! The next dog I had was a Springer and the first time out she flushed a hen and I decided, for training purposes, to drop it. I always wondered if I made a mistake not waiting on a roster. She quickly turned into a fine dog but hunted pheasant, not rosters. Now I have a male Brittany, no tail included ;O), and I've been waiting on the roster. The response I've gotten tells me my Beagle was the exception and not the rule. I don't hunt hens, but I want to reinforce on my dog what it is he's hunting. The last hen I shoot was the one my Springer flushed 12 yrs ago. Maybe I'll take my Brit out for some pen raised birds and solve my morale delima. But I have to say, that just goes against the grain with me; pen raised bird.....
 
I agree (Don't take the title seriously). I do take my 10 year old gray faced Irish setter out at the beginning of the season (Sept, Oct) for a brace of raised birds just to get him back into the groove. I also take him out and do field trials in Feb to June usually Chukar. But no I do not go for hens. My point was I have never seen it and what would the beagle do on Chukar or Quail? Or did you not hunt them?
 
@Homeboy: Oops my bad, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers! :eek:
You asked an open question, I qualified be4 my generalized comment that I don't know ANY of the particulars on you personally...I still solidly stand by my belief that very few if any dogs in the entire world can or will exclusively hunt only roosters over hens. This ain't my first rodeo either, I have been a party to killing thousands of birds of all kinds from upland to waterfowl over the last 3-4 decades & been around an awful lot of GOOD dogs besides my own...Each to his own, all I say to ANYONE (not just you) about the roosters-only thing is PROVE IT publicly with ample unbiased witnesses & heck I'll be a believer & your first disciple too!!! :D Been a lot of sasquatches, UFO's & "black panthers" sighted in strange out of the way places too - so far no one's ever produced a bona-fide specimen for the museum/history-books (grainy pics & "footprints" over the shoes don't count)...

I don't much care for the dog-like "hackles raised" & posturing/snarling that we hunters sometimes exhibit, & the general lack of it on this site compared to others is one of the reason's I'm on here - but since we both seem to be pissing/marking a little on this post, I'm not so sure about your confession of deliberately "dropping a hen for training purposes"? Hopefully it was one of those pen-raised/released-birds on a preserve that you don't like or Oh Well, at 12 yrs at least you're past the statute of limitations... :mad: BTW, I'm not much of a pen-raised bird fan either, other than for pre-season training purposes which I definitely utilize! :thumbsup:

@sdtEvgn: I totally agree on everything you had to say & ain't that a MIRACLE, cause Lord knows how much trouble you & I have agreeing on anything! :D BTW, I'm down for the 23rd and/or 24th! :cheers:
 
hen said:
@Homeboy: Oops my bad, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers! :eek:
You asked an open question, I qualified be4 my generalized comment that I don't know ANY of the particulars on you personally...I still solidly stand by my belief that very few if any dogs in the entire world can or will exclusively hunt only roosters over hens. This ain't my first rodeo either, I have been a party to killing thousands of birds of all kinds from upland to waterfowl over the last 3-4 decades & been around an awful lot of GOOD dogs besides my own...Each to his own, all I say to ANYONE (not just you) about the roosters-only thing is PROVE IT publicly with ample unbiased witnesses & heck I'll be a believer & your first disciple too!!! :D Been a lot of sasquatches, UFO's & "black panthers" sighted in strange out of the way places too - so far no one's ever produced a bona-fide specimen for the museum/history-books (grainy pics & "footprints" over the shoes don't count)...

I don't much care for the dog-like "hackles raised" & posturing/snarling that we hunters sometimes exhibit, & the general lack of it on this site compared to others is one of the reason's I'm on here - but since we both seem to be pissing/marking a little on this post, I'm not so sure about your confession of deliberately "dropping a hen for training purposes"? Hopefully it was one of those pen-raised/released-birds on a preserve that you don't like or Oh Well, at 12 yrs at least you're past the statute of limitations... :mad: BTW, I'm not much of a pen-raised bird fan either, other than for pre-season training purposes which I definitely utilize! :thumbsup:

@sdtEvgn: I totally agree on everything you had to say & ain't that a MIRACLE, cause Lord knows how much trouble you & I have agreeing on anything! :D BTW, I'm down for the 23rd and/or 24th! :cheers:
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No hackles raised here. You guys are great!! If I came off that way, please except my appology. The Beagle story is 100% true. That dog had an amazing nose. I had him and his sister as pups when we moved here in 82. I took him out with a friend that had a great Lab. He got into pheasant hunting right off. His sister liked coming along but was happy to let him take the lead and bust the brush. He would get down under the deepest tumble weed piles you ever saw and follow the same tunnels the birds did. I did get some strange looks from guys when they saw me in pheasant country with a Beagle.
I'll be out again this weekend working with my new knot head.
 
@homeboy - Sorry, with that little red angry-face icon to start off your original reply to me I thought you were mad at me for not somehow picking up by ESP or something that you were an experienced hunter! :eek:

Ur dog is NOT a knothead, I have no doubt it will all come together for you soon! :thumbsup:

BTW, I had a friend in TX with a weenie-dog (dachshund) that would swim out & retrieve a duck just like he was a lab! :D
 
This thread is funny...funny because after coming back from hunting this past MLK weekend, I realized that while dogs don't know the difference between roosters or hens as far as flushing them up and knowing which is which.

What I did notice was that, if we were walking a CRP field (switchgrass) and had hunted for several hundred yards and no birds yet, if the field larks flied around, the dogs would see them and I would watch there ears perk up, but then they would continue on.

When a hen did flush up we all yell "Hen, Hen" and the dogs look, watch and wait, if no shot and we yell "hen", then they would eventually continue to hunt.

So what I come to is that it is a "learned response" for the dog. Every time a hen flushes, we yell "Hen, Hen, no bird" (at least that is what I say, NO BIRD), they eventually just look or turn and then hear or see it is a hen and then they go on hunting.

Kind of like Pavlov's dog....the ringing of the bell.

Greg
 
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