Do you shoot coyotes while pheasant hunting?

gimruis said:
Yes, there is a pack that goes as far south as Milaca, which is where the timber line meets agriculture. This map is a little old, but still pretty accurate. Their range is massive.

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There have been multiple sightings recently just east of Long Siding, near the Rum River as well as possible sighting south of 94 near Clearwater. I doubt the the DNR wants to release a new range map!!
 
Gatzby said:
There have been multiple sightings recently just east of Long Siding, near the Rum River as well as possible sighting south of 94 near Clearwater. I doubt the the DNR wants to release a new range map!!
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I saw the article about the one near Clearwater recently. It was munching on a dead deer out in the snow covered field.
 
gimruis said:
I saw the article about the one near Clearwater recently. It was munching on a dead deer out in the snow covered field.
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Pretty questionable in my opinion. It sort of looked like a wolf, but it certainly didn't behave like a wolf.
 
gimruis said:
Its still in full swing. Northern MN has the largest reproducing population of wolves in the continental United States. Its actually too high right now in some areas, but since they are federally protected in the Great Lakes region, only licensed federal trappers can remove a "nuisance" animal.

Not uncommon for a wolf to take out a hunting dog. Canines do not tolerate other canines in their territory, which is exactly why the local yote population decreases when a wolf pack is present. Grouse hunters in the northern half of MN are fully aware of this and its a risk they take.

I've deer hunted in northern MN for 27 years and I've never seen one. Neither has anyone else in my 10 man party. They are like ghosts. I can't even imagine trying to hunt one. You'd have to sit there and wait for a month on end, and even then you might not see one. I've seen tracks in the snow and heard a pack howling in the distance. That's it. Would love to see one in the wild.
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I've seen one.Most magnificent dog I've ever seen.
 
I deer hunt on a powerline in norther MN just outside the large iron ore mines (Hibbing). I shot a nice buck on opening day this past season and dropped it in the open where I could see it. I got out to go tag and gut it right away. My dad was a half mile down the powerline and I got a call from him that I should watch my back and not gut it until he got there. He had three timberwolves cross the power line between him and another hunter and they were headed in my direction. They came out just after I shot and crossed in the open for 300 yards into the wind. They knew there was humans there and it didn't bother them in the least. They heard the dinner bell and came running.

Many people who live there feed deer over the winter to keep the deer population healthy since they do rely on the meat over the winter. They have wolves on their yard cams all the time lately. My deer was only one of a couple that were taken in the opening two weeks between 26 hunters in the area. They were all filling out opening weekend every year until 2-3 years ago. We called the DNR to report these incidents and got routed to the wildlife specialist for the area. She informed us that this change was due to global warming and humans encroaching on their territory. She couldn't quiet communicate what significant climate changes happened in the last couple years or where the building boom in northern MN happened. We got pushed out of the Grand Rapids area in the 80s when wolves moved in and wiped out the deer there. We started seeing wolves run past our tree stands during the day so we got out of there. We were there first so who's encroaching on who?

Regardless of what the overall impact of coyote on pheasant numbers is, there is the contrast between how MN culture sees predator control and how SD handles it. Everyone in SD we hunted with and met in the field firmly instructed us to shoot stray cats, racoons, possum, badgers and coyotes to help them protect their pets, other farmers' livestock and the pheasants/deer. If we were out with them and passed on a shot at one of these, there were hard feelings. I was reading in the habitat forum about trapping for racoon control and the landowner asked what's the point if there are so many on all the surrounding farms that will just move back in. I think the point is that it is a cultural thing that everyone participates in in SD and is a significant reason they have the number of pheasants they do just across the border from the same landscape in IA and MN that don't.
 
PeteRevvv said:
and is a significant reason they have the number of pheasants they do just across the border from the same landscape in IA and MN that don't.
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Abundance of predators is not measurable. Its not like these states are doing a population estimate of raccoons, skunks, or feral cats. So claiming that South Dakota has more pheasants than Iowa or Minnesota solely based on abundance of predators is purely theoretical.

The real reason South Dakota has more pheasants is because they have more suitable habitat. That is a measurable statistic. Everyone should know by now that availability of habitat followed by seasonal weather patterns play a far more critical role in the local upland bird population than predators. The issue with stray cats is that they are not a natural predator on the landscape, and never will be. Someone became negligent and irresponsible as a pet owner in the area and they have adapted into an ever-present problem that could have easily been avoided. Fluffy the cat needs to stay in the house, not out roaming the countryside.

As far as the wolves...yes, there are too many of them in northern Minnesota. The DNR can do nothing about it until the US Fish & Wildlife removes them from the endangered species list in the Great Lakes region AND a federal judge stops reversing that move. Each state can manage them on their own. A lottery, quota-based hunting and/or trapping season is the solution. I believe that wolves belong as a part of the landscape being a natural, apex predator; however they do need to be controlled. Claiming that wolves are solely responsible for wiping out the local deer herd is not based on fact. Are deer on their menu? Sure they are. Disease, winter kill, and hunters are responsible for a lot higher deer mortality than wolves though. People against hunting and trapping of wolves because they are "sacred" is a bunch of nonsense. Is a deer sacred? What about a walleye? People don't seem to have an issue harvesting those in mass quantities. And the argument that "you shouldn't hunt it if you can't eat it" is hogwash too. People hunt coyotes, fox, bobcat, and mountain lions in many states without the intent to eat them. Its called predator hunting.
 
According to biologists, pheasants forever and locals the bird numbers are dependent on weather, winter cover and predators. According to journalists/book writers, marginal landowners, bird dog hunters and government landgrabbers it is CRP "Habitat". You can do something about winter cover and predators.

If we are talking about numbers in terms of pheasants per square mile, it doesn't make much sense to argue habitat per square mile when the landscape of SE MN, NW IA and SE SD are so similar. But again, there is a cultural difference in SD in how they go about habitat management as well. Long before there was bounty programs, early summer ditch mowing restrictions or soil conservation programs, SD residents would voluntarily make sure these were done right to maximize wildlife numbers. MN and IA more often have a farm right up to the gravel, tile every slough, mow early/often and plow over every windbreak to maximize this year's crops.

I agree with your measures to deal with wolves but the resolve to deal with it comes from a majority of the people in MN in agreement which pushes the politicians both state and federal to prioritize the needs of people and hunting. That is a cultural shift that needs to change and the best example of that is next door in SD.
 
My feeling is, create habitat (shelter & food) in the "bird belt" and you will have birds, regardless of the predators. Sure, we can harvest a few of the fur bearers and save a few birds, but once the bird numbers get closer to the carrying limit of the parcel, there will be plenty for everyone, hunters of the human kind and four legged ones...even the winged ones. The weather is the wild card in the population factors as PR said, that is out of our control. If PF says that predators are a large source of bird mortality, well, then it likely is. We have seasons in which we can work on that.

Is this winter running out of steam yet????
 
remy3424 said:
My feeling is, create habitat (shelter & food) in the "bird belt" and you will have birds, regardless of the predators. Sure, we can harvest a few of the fur bearers and save a few birds, but once the bird numbers get closer to the carrying limit of the parcel, there will be plenty for everyone, hunters of the human kind and four legged ones...even the winged ones. The weather is the wild card in the population factors as PR said, that is out of our control. If PF says that predators are a large source of bird mortality, well, then it likely is. We have seasons in which we can work on that.

Is this winter running out of steam yet????
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I'll say it again. In southern Iowa in the 80's Pheasants, Coyotes, Hawks were lousy. It made me rethink my long held and spoon fed thoughts about predators and yes even cats. When the quail started disappearing in grand numbers I realized it wasn't the predators doing it. It was the guys telling me it was the predators!!
 
Nope. Coyotes hunt the predators that do a number of pheasants like racoons, possum and skunks. Coyotes themselves, although they might take a pheasant or two do far more good for pheasants than bad.


No single predator gets more blame for pheasant predation than coyotes, but research over several decades has proven that coyotes focus their foraging on rodents and rabbits and do not take adult pheasants or nests as frequently as the other mammalian predators (red fox, striped skunk and raccoon). In addition, the larger home range and territorial nature of coyotes can actually result in lower populations of these other, more destructive predators. Predation accounts for three-fourths of unsuccessful nests, and nearly all of adult mortality (excluding hunting) is directly predator related.

Bottom line: Through the addition and management of habitat, we not only decrease the impact predators have on existing nests, but also increase the number of nests and population size in the area. This management comes at a fraction of the cost of other predator reduction methods.
 
I had a conversation once with a coyote hunter. He said he was doing me a great service as the coyotes were killing all the rabbits and quail. I told him that I killed more quail in a year than a whole pack of yotes in two generations and I hadn't fazed the population. He looked at me with the strangest look on his face. It was like he had an epiphany, or he thought I was a blubbering idiot. It was probably the latter.
 
gimruis said:
You forgot feral cats. There's more of those in some areas than natural predators. And coyotes love eating them too.
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Yep, I knew a trapper who would pick up roadkill cats. He said a white cat foot sticking out of a winter wheat field was good coyote bait.
 
birddude said:
I had a conversation once with a coyote hunter. He said he was doing me a great service as the coyotes were killing all the rabbits and quail. I told him that I killed more quail in a year than a whole pack of yotes in two generations and I hadn't fazed the population. He looked at me with the strangest look on his face. It was like he had an epiphany, or he thought I was a blubbering idiot. It was probably the latter.
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As I've said before, I'm not a coyote lover as I've had them attack my dogs twice. I keep a 357 rifle loaded and ready in case I need to dust one off but won't unless I have to. Had a young one just sitting and watching the house a few weeks ago. We have no cats or pups so I just watched it wandering what he was thinking. Then checked my rifle was still loaded:). I also think that they get the blame for a lot of stuff that dogs do. My neighbor says they killed a young goat and packed it off. I'm not buying that even a big coyote jumped a fence with a 40 lb goat.
 
Well, one of the the SD state authorized and paid contract airborne coyote hunters is just 8 shy of 3000 killed coyotes so far this year. He figures he has about 2 more weeks of hunting, so it'll be over 3000 this year.

So what does GF&P really think about coyotes?
 
Chestle said:
Well, one of the the SD state authorized and paid contract airborne coyote hunters is just 8 shy of 3000 killed coyotes so far this year. He figures he has about 2 more weeks of hunting, so it'll be over 3000 this year.

So what does GF&P really think about coyotes?
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I've also read that the more you kill the more they breed! Course, 3000 down's got to have an impact. I bet they're trying to help the winter mortality rate for the pheasants. Do they do that every year?
 
Yes, every year. It's a state contract.

I have a friend that occasionally flies (literally) shotgun for him. I believe they are using a Cub with the doors taken off. Says wearing your snowmobile gear isn't enough to keep you warm!

Mostly though I think the pilot does the flying and the shooting solo. Which is a bit too brave for me. I've flown down in the weeds, wheels touching corn tassels but my focus was 110% on flying. I don't think I would have had any focus left over for shooting.

The coyotes were thick this year. Too bad the fur was worthless. Past years when the hides were $50, he'd land and pick up bonus money where he could. Friends would follow around and load pickups with them.

I heard they worked a single area about a third of one county a few times this year and bagged 300+ in that one area.

As for coyotes not eating pheasants. Literally NONE of the ranchers I hunt with believes that at all. They back their opinions with actually seeing it happen.


YMMV
 
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