Current General Sign-up For CRP

D

Downtown Bang!

Member
Is there good demand out there for the available acres? Are we going to cap out at 32 million acres?

I know it is early in the open enrollment period but curious if those of you who are part of the process or closer to the situation are hearing positive feedback.

Thanks

DB
 
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UGUIDE said:
Landman, you here of what the rent will look like on the General?

Anybody else have any expereince with the general signup.
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Uguide; It's not that great. For the area that I want to enroll the payment is only about $82 per acre, which is considerably below what cash rent would be. Also a person may need to give up some of the payment for a few extra points. I've been there before and I know that even if you maximize your points you may get the dreaded rejection letter in the mail. It all depends on the competition. Keep in mind that cost share for grass establishment is only 50% so you will have a sizable expense for that the first year.
 
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landman said:
Uguide; It's not that great. For the area that I want to enroll the payment is only about $82 per acre, which is considerably below what cash rent would be. Also a person may need to give up some of the payment for a few extra points. I've been there before and I know that even if you maximize your points you may get the dreaded rejection letter in the mail. It all depends on the competition. Keep in mind that cost share for grass establishment is only 50% so you will have a sizable expense for that the first year.
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That's very helpful Landman. Kinda what i thought that the general would really not be competitive, from a business standpoint, with cash rent or normal crop returns for that matter.

Think about this. If it ain't good in SD, where the cash rent to CRP rets are pretty close usually, how is anybody going to be interested in the general across the nation? If the general comes up short of its goal I hope they can reallocate more acres to Safe CP-39 and other goof continuous programs.

I guess we'll know on the 27th how the general did. Also about when we will know about brood counts.
 
landman said:
Uguide; It's not that great. For the area that I want to enroll the payment is only about $82 per acre, which is considerably below what cash rent would be. Also a person may need to give up some of the payment for a few extra points. I've been there before and I know that even if you maximize your points you may get the dreaded rejection letter in the mail. It all depends on the competition. Keep in mind that cost share for grass establishment is only 50% so you will have a sizable expense for that the first year.
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That's disappointing. Especially after earlier comments from the FDA indicating they would look to make the program more competative.
 
Now I know why there is no crp in California, those numbers wouldn't even cover the property tax on an acre.
 
UGUIDE said:
Kinda what i thought that the general would really not be competitive, from a business standpoint, with cash rent or normal crop returns for that matter.
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I think that depends on the area. In some counties in SD the payments are very competitive with cash rent.

LM what area of SD are you referring to?
 
UGUIDE said:
True, but not as compared with CCRP. The SIP,PIP and rent bonus make it hard for some to look at the general.

General looks better the further west you go where rents start to go lower.
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When the supposed average for union county is $168 that is pretty good compared to what I know guys are pay for rent and not every piece of ground is eligible under CCRP.
 
moellermd said:
When the supposed average for union county is $168 that is pretty good compared to what I know guys are pay for rent and not every piece of ground is eligible under CCRP.
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Moellermd, let's get to the facts on this. LM is in Douglas Cty BTW.

We need more info on your Union Cty scenario to really compare apples to apples. Like what is the soil type, what would general CRP pay, and what would cash rent pay for that soil type in that county?

My point is this: Let's say cash rent is $90 and General CRP will pay $90 that is competitive IF the landowner sees enough value in it to pay the %40 cost share out of pocket. If the landowner farms the ground himself and wants to be at risk to make a profit on the crop in a given year then CRP never looks good to him because every year the ground is in CRP he loses ability to make a gain (say a net of $150-200 acre or better). USDA predicts 2010 to break 2009's record harvest setting season.

In my county there is low interest in general and high in CCRP and ONLY in some CCRP like cp-33 and 37 and those 2 programs are about to be out of acres in SD.

The conservationist landowner is not the one we need to sell on CRP it is the farmer landowner.

What we need here on this forum are stories about how WE implemented CRP on our own land and/or went and show another landowner how to do that same thing and share success stories and closed doors.

It will be interesting to see if the 4.4 million acres is enrolled by August 27th or if the enrollment falls short.
 
UGUIDE said:
We need more info on your Union Cty scenario to really compare apples to apples. Like what is the soil type, what would general CRP pay, and what would cash rent pay for that soil type in that county?

My point is this: Let's say cash rent is $90 and General CRP will pay $90 that is competitive IF the landowner sees enough value in it to pay the %40 cost share out of pocket. If the landowner farms the ground himself and wants to be at risk to make a profit on the crop in a given year then CRP never looks good to him because every year the ground is in CRP he loses ability to make a gain (say a net of $150-200 acre or better). USDA predicts 2010 to break 2009's record harvest setting season.
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From the feedback that I've received, the interest in the General is relatively light in SD. Another thing to consider when comparing the rents is that the going rate of $90 per acre rent for farm land is usually for one or two years while the payment for CRP is for 10 years. You won't find many, if any, landowners who would lock in a one or two year going rate for a 10 year contract for farm ground.

A good example is my own General CRP that I signed up 12 years ago. At the time the $40 per acre rent was above the $35 per acre going rate for farm land but in just a couple of years the going rate was over $40 per acre and today the going rate is over $100 per acre - but I continue to get only $40 per acre for the CRP. Which do you think was the better deal from an economic standpoint? Enroll in the General or farm it for 10 years. Keep in mind - I'm not complaining, just trying to put it into perspective. I get a lot of personal enjoyment from improving conservation and wildlife, so for me, its worth it even if the price for CRP is below the going rate.

As in the past, most of the interest in CRP will come from retired landowners, conservationists, those with hunting operations and landowners interested in wildlife. The typical farmer, interested in producing crops and not very interested in conservation or wildlife, won't be in the market for CRP unless it is economical to do so.
 
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landman said:
From the feedback that I've received, the interest in the General is relatively light in SD.
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The guys at Milborn Seeds in Brookings think that it will be very competitive.

LM great point about the 10 year lock-in on the rent. It is tuff to lock it in for that long not knowing what the future will bring.
 
moellermd said:
The guys at Milborn Seeds in Brookings think that it will be very competitive.

LM great point about the 10 year lock-in on the rent. It is tuff to lock it in for that long not knowing what the future will bring.
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We are on the last week of the sign-up and from the feedback I've received the interest is very low in most counties in SD. We'll see what happens this week. In the past the USDA will sometimes extend the deadline to allow for more applications but I doubt if they will do it this time simply because there isn't enough time left before the October 1st start date to get everything processed.

This isn't necessarily bad news because a low turn out means that most, if not all, applications will get accepted this time around. And it also increases the chances for another General sign-up next year.

However a light turn out also means that more applications may go in without the CP25 option, which is more expensive but better for nesting wildlife.

As for the rent. Let's say you own a home that you rent. If the going rate is $800 per month on a one year lease, what would you rent it for if your tenant asked for a 10 year lease?
 
Landman, well said. I sign everything up for 15 years. Rent looks good now but in 15 years???

Moeller, keep in mind that the Millborn boys are in the "selling seed for CRP" and might be a little bit optimistically biased towards the general really being competitive or not. I think if they get 4.4 million enrooled we can call it competitve. If they fall shy on enrollment I can only hope that they we will re-issue acres in CP-38, 37, 33 and other popular and really competitive CCRP programs.

Another way to look at General is that if we know CCRP is competitve and general is 20-40% south of there in rent and cost share then we probably know that the general is not competitive. Only exception would be these 2 things: 1. Different scenario where some areas don't have good access to CCRP like you pointed out MN. 2. Hunting operation that can add income in $ to those CRP acres due to the nature of their business whereas the farmer who does not charge to hunt cannot.
 
UGUIDE said:
Landman, well said. I sign everything up for 15 years. Rent looks good now but in 15 years???

Moeller, keep in mind that the Millborn boys are in the "selling seed for CRP" and might be a little bit optimistically biased towards the general really being competitive or not. I think if they get 4.4 million enrooled we can call it competitve. If they fall shy on enrollment I can only hope that they we will re-issue acres in CP-38, 37, 33 and other popular and really competitive CCRP programs.

Another way to look at General is that if we know CCRP is competitve and general is 20-40% south of there in rent and cost share then we probably know that the general is not competitive. Only exception would be these 2 things: 1. Different scenario where some areas don't have good access to CCRP like you pointed out MN. 2. Hunting operation that can add income in $ to those CRP acres due to the nature of their business whereas the farmer who does not charge to hunt cannot.
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I couldn't have said it better. I too, sign up for 15 years when I can. Not a good decision from an economic perspective since the rent is the same for 10 years and for 15 years, but then I enjoy improving conservation and wildlife.

I'm also enrolling some WRP, which is probably even a worse decision economically. But I get the satisfaction of knowing that my efforts for conservation and wildlife will continue on that piece of ground beyond my lifetime. I'm also working on donating conservation easements so some bozo does not bulldoze my riparian trees out after I'm gone.
 
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landman said:
I couldn't have said it better. I too, sign up for 15 years when I can. Not a good decision from an economic perspective since the rent is the same for 10 years and for 15 years, but then I enjoy improving conservation and wildlife.

I'm also enrolling some WRP, which is probably even a worse decision economically. But I get the satisfaction of knowing that my efforts for conservation and wildlife will continue on that piece of ground beyond my lifetime. I'm also working on donating conservation easements so some bozo does not bulldoze my riparian trees out after I'm gone.
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Landman, nice legacy! Also, have you looked into USFW no drain/no fill easements? I looked at WRP and did not like. I like the restrictions on the USFW and longer wait list but am supposed to get an offer in maybe Jan. Put the whole farm in.

Boy are my wetlands full of water right now! Ducks everywhere.
 
UGUIDE said:
Landman, nice legacy! Also, have you looked into USFW no drain/no fill easements? I looked at WRP and did not like. I like the restrictions on the USFW and longer wait list but am supposed to get an offer in maybe Jan. Put the whole farm in.

Boy are my wetlands full of water right now! Ducks everywhere.
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Uguide: I'll look into the USFW easement, thanks for the information. I refinanced my land last week- the interest rates dropped considerably and the refinance costs were low. I suppose the low interest rates will push land prices even higher. Interest rates are less than 5.5% for a 20 year note and less than 6% for a 30 year.

I've never seen so many nesting ducks on my land as this year.
 
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Off the subject a bit here but is the current CRP program becoming antiquated? Are we getting to the point where at least some of the billions of dollars spent every year on big block CRP needs to be re-allocated in order to acheive lasting long-term goals for habitat and the environment?

I'm thinking along the lines of greater funding for the permanent set-aside of acres in high sensitivity areas. Re-establishment of permanent wetlands. Larger wetland buffers and stream buffers. Permanent idling of ground located in temporary wetlands. Permanent idling of ground in field waterways. Establishment of shelterbelts and woody cover.

I understand well managed big block CRP has benefits especially in regards to nesting cover and in areas where prairie grouse are present. But in areas of the country where extensive crop production is the norm could we acheive the same thing by coupling the above higher cost permanent programs with subsidation of winter wheat plantings and other small grains that create decent nesting cover? Would $20.00 an acre and the inherent soil benefits associated with crop rotation be enough for the average farmer to look at planting less corn & less soybeans?

As landman mentioned above the current program only really appeals to retired farmers, recreational landowners & conservation minded land owners. Long term I see a need to find ways to obtain buy in and participation from production farmers as well.

I realize anytime you try and make sweeping changes to a standing federal program you risk losing it. But it also appears we could be getting a whole lot more wildlife and environemntal benefit from the 32 miilion acres available than is currently the case.
 
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