Copper Shot?

I will suggest that most hunters cannot not consistently hit a 50 yard crossing bird with any ammunition.

šŸ™‹ I'm one that can't. But I take them occasionally if it's a GOOD 50 yd shot. Not at all a straightaway, no nasty cover, etc. And I'll probably miss most of them, but at least I know my shells are sufficient. It'd be nice to have an excuse, but it's strangely comforting knowing I'm the problem & not my gun or shells.šŸ˜†šŸ˜†
 
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I will suggest that most hunters cannot not consistently hit a 50 yard crossing bird with any ammunition.
I think A5 is the only one with much of a chance on 50 yard crossers, sporting that full choke tube and an autoloader. Maybe if BB were here, he could make that shot and then shoot it again before it is on the deck...just to make sure.
I find pheasants that are much closer to me (than 50 yards) are much easier for me to hit, but I am not using a full choke either. I will guess AT LEAST 80% of the birds I shoot flush within 20 yards of me. Thus the IC tube I use...and having a pointer. Yah, I like the lay-ups. Things vary so much from the habitat, to what type of dog you use, to the shells you use (lead or non-tox), to the ability of the hunter.
 
I've heard tales of the old days up on the high Canadian where the crackshots could make a hit many times at that distance. They used old time Sweet 16s. But not those with the inferior Jap barrels, the ones handcrafted in Belgium.
 
I've heard tales of the old days up on the high Canadian where the crackshots could make a hit many times at that distance. They used old time Sweet 16s. But not those with the inferior Jap barrels, the ones handcrafted in Belgium.

Exactly! Barrels crafted by some Belgian, sipping (chugging, more likely) a Stella Artois at the lathe, were much straighter, smoother, prettier, & more accurately choked than those produced by Japanese technology, well known to be inferior, especially in the 80s & 90s.
 
I shoot full choke. Per my response to another comment in this thread, I take very few 50 yd shots. My 50 yd criteria comes moreso from wanting "great" pellet penetration at 40 yds, not just barely enough, because I take plenty of those (not straight aways). Great penetration at 40 basically bleeds over into "sufficient" penetration at 50 yds, kind of by default. Similarly, when I talk about my 150 pellet rule, that mainly gets me to 40 yds or so, & does tend to thin out at 50. But my shooting ability also comes into play. I'm not nearly as reliable at 50 as I am at 40. But if I don't whiff at 50, I tend to make a good shot, putting enough pellets in the kill zone.

The thing about 35 yds does, in fact, sound like me. Not 100% sure of the context, but I believe I was probably talking about straight away shots.

I obviously enjoy discussing ballistics. I need to remember that when I do, it could be interpreted several different ways, when much of the time I'm mainly talking about achieving pellet penetration, particularly when I discuss different shot sizes & materials.

The ability to put a killing pattern on a bird at some range is so specific to the shooter & his/her particular gun/load/choke combination that I almost don't consider those topics part of "ballistics". In my mind, I tend to apply "ballistics" to ammunition only & the rest to shooting technique & guns/chokes. For right or wrong.
As a fellow 16ga guy, I’d have no issue shooting the Boss copper in #4, out of a Full choke, just past the 40yd mark. The density is not that much lower than bismuth. I’d feel comfortable with that load.
 
When I’ve espoused the merits of shooting at a hit bird a 2nd time, I’ve always stated only if it’s safe to do so, and obviously, if it’s even feasible to do so…some birds hit the deck too quickly…and I don’t believe I’ve attached distances to that idea…but it’d be more likely on farther, higher shots. Is it one out of 3? 5? 10? 20? I don’t know. Does it happen with some regularity that I do it? Yes. Do I know for certain that I actually connect with that 2nd attempt? Of course not. Is there any downside to doing it, other than using up a shell? No, not that I can think of. Yesterday wrapped up my 4th trip this season thus far, and while I don’t keep an exact bird count, I’m in the mid-50’s at this point, bird #’s are excellent….and I don’t believe I’ve ever suggested that I’m a great shot, at any particular distance, but I’m shooting pretty well by my standards overall, with those occasional misses that leave a guy wondering. About the only thing I know for sure is that I’m able to hunt a good amount, in a pretty good area historically, with this year being perhaps the best year in a decade, probably closer to 15 years, and taking that all into the mix, I have some opportunities to consistently have that situation where I’ll shoot at a hit bird a 2nd time, for example, but by no means am I suggesting it’s happening on a daily basis…or at any particular distance. This trip, I’d say most of the birds I shot were well within 30 yards, some past that, and I don’t think I did take a 2nd shot at a hit bird, though I might have and I don’t recall. I know I ended my hunt yesterday by taking my 10 month old pup on a walk in my field with her solo, which I’ve very rarely done, and I shot 2 roosters over her which was a thrill…she did a stellar job before and after the kill…and without question, on shots like those, where a bird flushes at 10, 12, 15 yards, and is hit quickly after flushing, that idea of a second shot is laughable, I get it. But they happen enough, for me at least, that I’ll discuss the merits of doing it, knowing there’s no downside to doing it as long as it’s safe to do so. I’ve never proclaimed to hit the bird with that 2nd shot consistently, but it certainly happens some of the time. I’m no better a shot than anybody else who spends time here, probably worse…but I know with certainty that the more time I’m afield, the more various situations occur, that allow for some friendly discussion about this sport that we’re all pretty passionate about. And this trip that just wrapped for me on Saturday, that included 6 of us of varying degrees of experience and ability, 3 of whom had no dogs, and are not regulars to the fields, but all of whom were safe, conscientious hunters, saw lots of examples once again of how tough pheasants are, and how tough they can be to recover, and I’m always trying to maximize the # of hit birds that are found. That’s all. I probably overstep with guys on the hunt that aren’t my invites, but I’ll quiz them on shells, chokes, etc, just to try and increase the likelihood of recovering birds. If I seem boastful about any aspects of pheasant hunting, or hyperbolic, or anything that strains credulity, my apologies…I’m doing the same thing here, chatting with other hunters, virtually none that I personally know, or ever will. I try to promote this sport, and to offer ideas that I think are constructive and helpful, based on my own considerable experience. I’m a promoter of hunting safely, of hunting with dogs, and of doing everything possible to recover birds that are shot. And because I periodically hunt with guys without dogs, it seems wise to encourage that idea of taking a 2nd shot at a hit bird, if it’s possible to do so safely…no real downside….50 cents, basically. I was again pleased with my 12 gauge set up
of IC, 2 3/4ā€ shells of 1.25 oz of #5 lead at normal velocities of around 1250 fps…many shots past 40 yards, crossers, thankfully, but a lethal combo, for me at least. Hope your seasons are going well, and continue to….and lastly, I’ll say this—nothing beats the solo walk with a dog or two, at your own pace, with no pressures to keep
a pace with a group, and whether it’s one contact or 10, to enjoy that experience of just you and the dog(s)….good bird #’s or not…the group hunt thing is fine, and great bird #’s sure make for lots of circus-like drama, but that solitude of being alone, especially during that last 30 or 45 or 60 minutes, with the sun setting and coloring the prairie landscape in unbelievable ways, and to do all this in a more-or-less silent atmosphere, interrupted by some geese flying over, or a rooster cackling a 1/4 mile away, is the payoff for me…that 40 minute walk with my girl Merle, just her and I, was the highlight of my season…what a treat to be healthy, and mobile, and have the ability to put it all together and be out here doing it….I’m aware that for some, getting away is a virtual impossibility, for whatever reason…and something will change things for me, at some point…what will that be? Could be many things…but until that time comes, what fun! Same thing I was doing at 11 or 12, in the wintertime, taking my dad’s lab, and walking to shady oak lake, and finding the cattails and being amazed at the pheasants we’d flush…thrilling!
 
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Boss is nothing more than a great marketing company. Sure, they make great ammo, but with the switch to copper they are selling something that according to them is as good if not better than the bismuth it replaces even though they have no real-world data from hunters to back it up. It's ironic because even Brandon himself said on a podcast that if the price of bismuth came down and they could get a good supply chain going again they would dump the copper and go back to bismuth. I think this tells everyone all they need to know about what they really think about copper vs bismuth. Like others have said the ballistics don't lie, you can come up with every marketing scheme in the world but if real world results don't match what your peddling, hunters will catch on quick and go back to other sources of ammo. I will say their bismuth is a great shell, and it's all I shoot in my 20's and 28's and I have no issues. Time will tell what happens with bismuth, but I really hope they are able to get a supply stream going in the next year or two because I have about a 3-year supply left.
 
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