Colorado to Release Pheasants? Yes Please
- Thread starter gsphunter23
- Start date
Releasing F1 wild pen raised pheasants (pen raised pheasants from parents only one generation removed from the authentic wild fields) is a good idea.
DO NOT release the tame fat 60 to 70 generation in the pen, pen raised ringneck pheasants that don't have the natural instants to hide from predators.
Remember every wild pheasant in Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas originated from pheasants that were once in a pen. In the 1940's, 1950's 1960's and 70's Texas, Oklahoma and Colorado had state supported game bird farms. Kansas had a game bird farm up to the late 50's and early 60's.
These state games farms released wilded strains of pen raised ringneck pheasants and thats how wild pheasants got started in those states. They didn't just fly east from the first 1881 release in Oregon.
Look at the link below of authentic wild pheasant in the China back country, obtain eggs from these birds to use as brood stock, release their pen raised off springs into the field:
http://wntvapple.blog.163.com/blog/static/16586197020101097222853/
http://blog1.poco.cn/myBlogDetail-htx-id-5459925-userid-6419191-pri--n-0.xhtml
The objective would not be to get roosters in this fall bag but to get live healthy hens into the green nesting cover next spring and summer to hatch wild baby pheasants.
Remember during the drought 2011, 2012 and 2013 some areas saw a 70 to 80 percent reduction in wild pheasant numbers.
DO NOT release the tame fat 60 to 70 generation in the pen, pen raised ringneck pheasants that don't have the natural instants to hide from predators.
Remember every wild pheasant in Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas originated from pheasants that were once in a pen. In the 1940's, 1950's 1960's and 70's Texas, Oklahoma and Colorado had state supported game bird farms. Kansas had a game bird farm up to the late 50's and early 60's.
These state games farms released wilded strains of pen raised ringneck pheasants and thats how wild pheasants got started in those states. They didn't just fly east from the first 1881 release in Oregon.
Look at the link below of authentic wild pheasant in the China back country, obtain eggs from these birds to use as brood stock, release their pen raised off springs into the field:
http://wntvapple.blog.163.com/blog/static/16586197020101097222853/
http://blog1.poco.cn/myBlogDetail-htx-id-5459925-userid-6419191-pri--n-0.xhtml
The objective would not be to get roosters in this fall bag but to get live healthy hens into the green nesting cover next spring and summer to hatch wild baby pheasants.
Remember during the drought 2011, 2012 and 2013 some areas saw a 70 to 80 percent reduction in wild pheasant numbers.
mustistuff
Banned
pet birds
for one thing, there has to be land and cover to release them, the second problem is finding a hen that was smart enough to have survived and then teach her babies how to survive, that's where this system breaks down, with pen raised birds the teaching system has been broken, if you could live trap enough wild birds, like steal them from s. dakota and then release them, many, if they had the habitat would survive.
cheers
for one thing, there has to be land and cover to release them, the second problem is finding a hen that was smart enough to have survived and then teach her babies how to survive, that's where this system breaks down, with pen raised birds the teaching system has been broken, if you could live trap enough wild birds, like steal them from s. dakota and then release them, many, if they had the habitat would survive.
cheers
mnmthunting
Banned
This Preston is a good post.
Reminds me of the situation going on in MT right now with the relocation of the Yellowstone Bison/Buffalo into public lands in MT.
Bison that have have been penned for a lot of generations by now will behave behind a good 4 tight wire barb. The problem is with the genetically pure wild bison from Yellowstone, They don't give a crap about fences, like running through a patch of willows or something, tear the fences down accordingly.
Ask those at the American Prairie Reserve in MT. A world class fence, electric and all to hold the wild/genetically pure Bison. The wild and running herds of Buffalo stomp right through the fences.
For sure there are pen raised pheasants that have more wild instincts then others,you can tell right away by just approaching the pen, you should see PANDEMONIUM within the cage as you aproch, those should be used for releasing.
Reminds me of the situation going on in MT right now with the relocation of the Yellowstone Bison/Buffalo into public lands in MT.
Bison that have have been penned for a lot of generations by now will behave behind a good 4 tight wire barb. The problem is with the genetically pure wild bison from Yellowstone, They don't give a crap about fences, like running through a patch of willows or something, tear the fences down accordingly.
Ask those at the American Prairie Reserve in MT. A world class fence, electric and all to hold the wild/genetically pure Bison. The wild and running herds of Buffalo stomp right through the fences.
For sure there are pen raised pheasants that have more wild instincts then others,you can tell right away by just approaching the pen, you should see PANDEMONIUM within the cage as you aproch, those should be used for releasing.
HeavyC
Member
Must be going to ths wrong preserves then...the one i frequent has incredibly great flying birds and they are darn sneaky as well. ..I'v seen then plenty of times trying to sneak around my dogs before they busted into the air. The key I think is to ensure they have large enough pen so they become strong flyers! ...survival instincts do not really go away...sometimes they are just not used
I like hunting wild pheasants for the challenge. I don't want to have to kick a pheasant in the ass to get it to fly. It's called hunting not killing guys. If you want to KILL pheasants go to a preserve! If you want to hunt wild pheasants in a wild setting for the challenge and reward of harvesting a wild bird support Pheasants Forever. Its that easy guys, if you don't agree I am sorry, you're wrong.
Preston1, I assume at least one of your comments was in response to my post. I should have said "...Willamette Valley and subsequent stockings beyond...". I wasn't implying they all flew east from Washington, but I assumed folks would get that.
Anyway, the entire program I worked on utilized new genetic strains and subspecies from China using eggs collected and brought over and hatched. The whole breeding stock of pheasants was from these original eggs and every bird released was an F1 generation bird. Still didn't work as well as hoped.
One of the issues of utilizing pen raised birds to establish populations in unoccupied habitat or to bolster existing populations in my opinion (separate from the habitat issue) is that once released, pen-raised pheasants just don't seem to know what "to do", and if they don't figure it out real fast, they're most likely dead. There are no galvanized feed troughs, no plastic waterers, etc.
I always wanted to try an experiment where we would put a group of chicks (using variable but fairly normal size hatches of anywhere from 6-10 chicks) with an F1 hen in the range pens. When the weather is good enough for them to be out overnight, have those chicks learn from the hen (as if it was their own 'mother' and IF she would accept the role) as they went about daily life in the range pens. Then about mid summer let them go in quality habitat and see what happens.
In the end, you can spend a whole lot of money and get nuttin'. We will have decent populations of birds in years when everything comes together and tough times when they don't.
Anyway, the entire program I worked on utilized new genetic strains and subspecies from China using eggs collected and brought over and hatched. The whole breeding stock of pheasants was from these original eggs and every bird released was an F1 generation bird. Still didn't work as well as hoped.
One of the issues of utilizing pen raised birds to establish populations in unoccupied habitat or to bolster existing populations in my opinion (separate from the habitat issue) is that once released, pen-raised pheasants just don't seem to know what "to do", and if they don't figure it out real fast, they're most likely dead. There are no galvanized feed troughs, no plastic waterers, etc.
I always wanted to try an experiment where we would put a group of chicks (using variable but fairly normal size hatches of anywhere from 6-10 chicks) with an F1 hen in the range pens. When the weather is good enough for them to be out overnight, have those chicks learn from the hen (as if it was their own 'mother' and IF she would accept the role) as they went about daily life in the range pens. Then about mid summer let them go in quality habitat and see what happens.
In the end, you can spend a whole lot of money and get nuttin'. We will have decent populations of birds in years when everything comes together and tough times when they don't.
HeavyC
Member
Going to the wrong preserves then...I have paid for many many dozens of birds at Auer Bird Valley the last few years and never once had my dog grab one while sleeping or have to kick one up!...heck she's got three wild ones without a shot the last few years. ..but never a planted one!
So heck...I again cannot recommend them highly enough. Not affiliated in any way...just a faithful customer! !! For me it is not about killing. ..it is about my dogs!! Too many times the last three years they have put 30+ miles on their paws with no reward for it. A preserve hunt is their reward from me!!!
So heck...I again cannot recommend them highly enough. Not affiliated in any way...just a faithful customer! !! For me it is not about killing. ..it is about my dogs!! Too many times the last three years they have put 30+ miles on their paws with no reward for it. A preserve hunt is their reward from me!!!
Yes Preserves have to repalce birds, And they fly on to public WIAs and private land.
Also in the late 90s and early 2000 South Dakota had a program were some of the farmers were paid to raise Pheasant for the DOW, and release them into the wild! And Haymaker i have friends in Orient SD who where paid to raise the birds and release them, So people it does work!
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It may work, it just isn't required of all pay hunt places. Happy hunting.
They stocked turkeys in Iowa 50 years ago...now it's over run with turkey. Elk were stocked on So. Colo from Yellowstone many, many years ago...bingo, massive numbers of elk now.
It's a money issue short-term and long term...a $40 combo small game license aint going to cut it for any program to improve pheasant numbers.
Plus it is a hunter number issue as well in terms of the eastern plains of Colorado. You've got a huge number of potential Front Range hunters competing for a relatively small number of birds....increase bird numbers and more hunters will come, so many that bird numbers will plumment again.
When I was young, Iowa farm roads all had at least 30 feet of road ditch on either side. Most fencelines had about 3-5 feet of grass cover on both sides. total all this up and it is a huge number of idle acres, perfect for pheasants. Today, many Iowa roadside ditches are gone, fenceline to fenceline farming has removed un-told acres from productive pheasant lands. Waterways in fields are plowed and farmed for $6 bushel corn for ethanol...who wouldn't? Now, Iowa pheasant harvest is down 50% and still falling. And Colorado is not even close to Iowa in terms of land productivity. No farmer is going to give up $6000 in corn sales per acre for a few roosters for a bunch of Denverites like me...
Elk are in town in Estes Park during hunting season, geese are a huge nuisance in town but non-existent on the plains, coyotes are over-running my neighborhood, can't shoot Sage grouse, prairie dogs by the thousands near my house, liberals lurking everywhere protecting them, bears, mountain lion, and deer live in suburbia...Park rangers lurking about telling everyone to stay on the trail...where have all the good times gone...
It's a money issue short-term and long term...a $40 combo small game license aint going to cut it for any program to improve pheasant numbers.
Plus it is a hunter number issue as well in terms of the eastern plains of Colorado. You've got a huge number of potential Front Range hunters competing for a relatively small number of birds....increase bird numbers and more hunters will come, so many that bird numbers will plumment again.
When I was young, Iowa farm roads all had at least 30 feet of road ditch on either side. Most fencelines had about 3-5 feet of grass cover on both sides. total all this up and it is a huge number of idle acres, perfect for pheasants. Today, many Iowa roadside ditches are gone, fenceline to fenceline farming has removed un-told acres from productive pheasant lands. Waterways in fields are plowed and farmed for $6 bushel corn for ethanol...who wouldn't? Now, Iowa pheasant harvest is down 50% and still falling. And Colorado is not even close to Iowa in terms of land productivity. No farmer is going to give up $6000 in corn sales per acre for a few roosters for a bunch of Denverites like me...
Elk are in town in Estes Park during hunting season, geese are a huge nuisance in town but non-existent on the plains, coyotes are over-running my neighborhood, can't shoot Sage grouse, prairie dogs by the thousands near my house, liberals lurking everywhere protecting them, bears, mountain lion, and deer live in suburbia...Park rangers lurking about telling everyone to stay on the trail...where have all the good times gone...We just got back from our annual pheasant hunting trip to Kansas. Even with this being a down year (hunting near Dodge City), we averaged around 2 or 3 roosters per day for a group of 6. We hunted Friday, Sat and Sun.
Things I have learned and noticed since hunting in Kansas for pheasants since 1996.
#1- KS does a much better job of leaving cover, nesting habitat for pheasant than Colorado does by far!!!!
#2-WIA in KS are as good or better than hunting on private land in Colorado. The CRP, weeds, etc are at waist high. The switchgrass is nice a orange/red and has come back. When I was there two years ago the grass was grey and dead.
#3-KS really caters to small game/bird hunters were Colorado does not.
Colorado is a big game state. We as hunters pay alot of $$$ for a service that the DOW provides, however they do a half ass job if you ask me.
#4-I don't know about planting birds and all, however I would be willing to pay an extra couple of dollars for a pheasant stamp or WIA fee if the state would actually do the work on the habitat.
I don't know if it is as much about planting birds as it is the habitat. Food, cover, and all that. Tree rows with weeds, tailwater pits, places where pheasants can live and grow.
The roosters we shot this weekend we either young birds to last years birds.
And we didn't shoot them all
Greg
Things I have learned and noticed since hunting in Kansas for pheasants since 1996.
#1- KS does a much better job of leaving cover, nesting habitat for pheasant than Colorado does by far!!!!
#2-WIA in KS are as good or better than hunting on private land in Colorado. The CRP, weeds, etc are at waist high. The switchgrass is nice a orange/red and has come back. When I was there two years ago the grass was grey and dead.
#3-KS really caters to small game/bird hunters were Colorado does not.
Colorado is a big game state. We as hunters pay alot of $$$ for a service that the DOW provides, however they do a half ass job if you ask me.
#4-I don't know about planting birds and all, however I would be willing to pay an extra couple of dollars for a pheasant stamp or WIA fee if the state would actually do the work on the habitat.
I don't know if it is as much about planting birds as it is the habitat. Food, cover, and all that. Tree rows with weeds, tailwater pits, places where pheasants can live and grow.
The roosters we shot this weekend we either young birds to last years birds.
And we didn't shoot them all
Greg
my experience with paying an additional fee for habitat improvement is it is generally wasted and hard for the DOW to prove the enhancements.We just got back from our annual pheasant hunting trip to Kansas. Even with this being a down year (hunting near Dodge City), we averaged around 2 or 3 roosters per day for a group of 6. We hunted Friday, Sat and Sun.
Things I have learned and noticed since hunting in Kansas for pheasants since 1996.
#1- KS does a much better job of leaving cover, nesting habitat for pheasant than Colorado does by far!!!!
#2-WIA in KS are as good or better than hunting on private land in Colorado. The CRP, weeds, etc are at waist high. The switchgrass is nice a orange/red and has come back. When I was there two years ago the grass was grey and dead.
#3-KS really caters to small game/bird hunters were Colorado does not.
Colorado is a big game state. We as hunters pay alot of $$$ for a service that the DOW provides, however they do a half ass job if you ask me.
#4-I don't know about planting birds and all, however I would be willing to pay an extra couple of dollars for a pheasant stamp or WIA fee if the state would actually do the work on the habitat.
I don't know if it is as much about planting birds as it is the habitat. Food, cover, and all that. Tree rows with weeds, tailwater pits, places where pheasants can live and grow.
The roosters we shot this weekend we either young birds to last years birds.
And we didn't shoot them all
Greg
better they just stay the hell out of the way.........
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double trigger
Member
I do NOT think this is a great idea. Stocking pheasants seems like a quick-fix, easy answer that ignores the true problem of dwindling wild pheasant populations: lack of suitable habitat to support pheasants on a wide-scale basis. The reason other states like Utah, Wyoming, mid-western, eastern states, etc. have gone to stocking pen-raised pheasants is because either they do not naturally have a suitable climate or geography to support large wild populations (like Wyoming) or they have lost the quality habitat they once had due to clean farming methods (that remove suitable cover), urban sprawl, or removing land from conservation programs.
Colorado DOES have a suitable climate and land in the agricultural areas to potentially support an excellent wild pheasant population - it has had excellent populations in the past but has lost much of the good pheasant habitat due to clean farming methods and urban sprawl. Recent drought has also hurt pheasant numbers. Even in states with great habitat and pheasant populations, there are going to be down years due to mother nature and this is to be expected.
Stocking pheasants is also an expensive under-taking (ask any game farm). You can't even compare stocking pheasants with stocking fish - the per unit cost of a pheasant is much higher. And there is no "catch and release" in hunting, once you shoot a bird it's quite dead. And has been pointed out by other posters there is very little that is sporting about shooting stocked birds - it's not really hunting it's just killing. A wild pheasant has a very strong survival instinct and is very elusive, the same cannot be said about pen-raised birds. Science has shown time and time again that stocked birds do NOT survive well in the wild - if they are not harvested by hunters right away they should be considered a very expensive way to feed coyotes, foxes, etc. Colorado Parks and Wildlife should already understand this well if they are listening to their own upland biologists!
I would much rather see the State focus resources on expanding habitat to support a large wild pheasant population. Also more public access to this quality habitat is needed - the State Walk-In access program has been good but more land needs to be enrolled to avoid over-crowding. I understand the concern to recruit and keep young hunters interested, and there is a place for some stocking of birds to support youth hunts (several of Colorado's Pheasants Forever chapters do an excellent job of this already). Building and keeping quality habitat is the long-term answer if this state is serious about providing quality pheasant hunting for future generations to enjoy
Colorado DOES have a suitable climate and land in the agricultural areas to potentially support an excellent wild pheasant population - it has had excellent populations in the past but has lost much of the good pheasant habitat due to clean farming methods and urban sprawl. Recent drought has also hurt pheasant numbers. Even in states with great habitat and pheasant populations, there are going to be down years due to mother nature and this is to be expected.
Stocking pheasants is also an expensive under-taking (ask any game farm). You can't even compare stocking pheasants with stocking fish - the per unit cost of a pheasant is much higher. And there is no "catch and release" in hunting, once you shoot a bird it's quite dead. And has been pointed out by other posters there is very little that is sporting about shooting stocked birds - it's not really hunting it's just killing. A wild pheasant has a very strong survival instinct and is very elusive, the same cannot be said about pen-raised birds. Science has shown time and time again that stocked birds do NOT survive well in the wild - if they are not harvested by hunters right away they should be considered a very expensive way to feed coyotes, foxes, etc. Colorado Parks and Wildlife should already understand this well if they are listening to their own upland biologists!
I would much rather see the State focus resources on expanding habitat to support a large wild pheasant population. Also more public access to this quality habitat is needed - the State Walk-In access program has been good but more land needs to be enrolled to avoid over-crowding. I understand the concern to recruit and keep young hunters interested, and there is a place for some stocking of birds to support youth hunts (several of Colorado's Pheasants Forever chapters do an excellent job of this already). Building and keeping quality habitat is the long-term answer if this state is serious about providing quality pheasant hunting for future generations to enjoy
double trigger
Member
Regarding paying a WIA fee or purchasing a pheasant stamp, I am fine with that assuming of course the funds are used for the intended purpose. In Colorado I believe for the most part they are and have been. We just need MORE land open to public access to cut down on the over-crowding we often see.
I am willing and would expect to pay for something I use and enjoy. Some folks thinking nothing of paying north of $100 for a day of skiing (I don't any more). Paying for a WIA or stamp for a season of use seems like a bargain. :cheers:
I am willing and would expect to pay for something I use and enjoy. Some folks thinking nothing of paying north of $100 for a day of skiing (I don't any more). Paying for a WIA or stamp for a season of use seems like a bargain. :cheers:
Retrvman,
Greg, glad you had a good hunt, thanks for the report. How did your young pointing lab do?
My 2 cents on stocking birds would be that they would all end up across the road in private land like most birds driven out of the WIA's. Most stocked birds will become wild or survive for a while if they last 3 days. I can't see the value of trying it.
Greg, glad you had a good hunt, thanks for the report. How did your young pointing lab do?
My 2 cents on stocking birds would be that they would all end up across the road in private land like most birds driven out of the WIA's. Most stocked birds will become wild or survive for a while if they last 3 days. I can't see the value of trying it.
None of it would matter if the habitat in Colorado isn't improved. Habitat is the key. All these PF chapters in this state and the habitat in Colorado has not been improved that I am aware of!!
I mean I go to banquets, spend $$ and what has been shown for it.
I agree with the fee/stamp if the $$$ can be shown how and where it was spent, otherwise NO!!
Greg
I mean I go to banquets, spend $$ and what has been shown for it.
I agree with the fee/stamp if the $$$ can be shown how and where it was spent, otherwise NO!!
Greg
double trigger
Member
Retrvman,
Thanks for your support of PF and I share your frustration in not seeing more habitat improvement. I don't work for PF or anything but I have volunteered with them for many years because I do believe in what they are doing. If you go out into any of the pheasant belt counties of Colorado like Yuma, Phillips, Logan, etc. you can easily see the tree lines, shrub thickets, etc. to improve habitat. Most of these were put in by PF chapters (I know because I worked on some of them). I won't bore you with statistics but a great deal of habitat improvement has been done by PF in Colorado and will continue to be done. I would not worry that your dollars put into PF have not been put to good use.
Although PF and local chapters are trying, in the past 2 years in particular, convincing landowners to put land into conservation has been a tough sell. They want to cash in on the high prices for corn, beans, etc. So we are seeing much more land coming out of conservation habitat than going in (in fact until a new Farm Bill is passed that authorizes it new acres cannot be enrolled into CRP even if a landowner wanted to).
It is frustrating time to be a pheasant hunter and hoping for more and better habitat. There are many forces working against habitat and pheasants now but it will turn around for the better IF we all make our opinions known and support organizations like PF that can help make it happen on a national level.
Good hunting to you :cheers: