Buying buffers?

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0fer2

New member
Hi all

What do you think about the idea of buying buffers around wetlands ditches etc in S MN? The reason I am asking is the Gov's proposal has met with fierce opposition (of course) from Farm Bureau, Farmers Union, etc etc etc. The Gov has been on the road meeting, and I read in the Strib that $$$$$$ has been talked about for compensation.

I can sorta see that IF you've been doing the right thing. But if you haven't, no way.

I do see as a better, to me, idea of buying the buffers. Less compensation if you haven't followed the law. And to take it a step further, since so much of drain tile comes below the ground into the ditches, then how about periodic settling areas to remove pesticides fertilizers etc? They could be some plants that help, perhaps cattails or??

Since the farmers don't trust the DNR and I don't trust the farmers, why not buy AND that land is open to the public no ifs ands or buts?

Whaddya think?

Dan
 
If I am reading correctly what you are saying, the problem that I see is trespassing. Many times these buffers will be in the middle of their fields, with their corn/beans surrounding it. If public land is landlocked within private land, then it is very tough to got onto without trespassing on the private land (cornfield) to get to the public land (buffer zone).
 
Jackrabbit

Thought this through again. Landlocked should stay public, but as a "refuge" for lack of a better word. State can access for monitoring and work, but closed to public for hunting fishing trapping etc

Dan
 
Hey McFarmer

Followed the law: I don't know if my terminology is correct here, but an example is if you are legally bound by an agreement on buffers reserves etc and you don't follow them.

Doing the right thing: Something we all face as human beings. It would be to abide by an agreement to a reserve area or buffer. Using neonic free seed if an option, or avoiding round-up ready seed if available. Respecting no trespassing laws.
 
I don't want to upset anyone on either side of this debate so please listen to me and read this whole post before you hate me! I have hunted these buffer strips before with huge success! I love them. They provide cover and habitat for pheasants but also lots of other wildlife. I think this is a good start to bringing back our bird population. Here is the problem. Emanate domain is not a good thing in our society. When I force a farmer to sell me some of his land that goes against everything I stand for as an American. I know some farmers are not good stewards of the land and destroy things in the process. I also know some farmers who do great at building up the land. The latter ones tend to be more successful and grow their operations and live the American dream. Emanate domain says that the government ultimately owns your land and you have no rights to it other that to pay taxes and do what they say. I know that last statement is probably reality but lets not allow the government to take any more than they already have.
My solution, pay the farmer a decent cash rent for the property based on current pricing and then add incentives to "sweeten" the deal. Make it hard for him to not take the deal and in turn help himself, the water, the environment, the sportsman, and others all at one time. Just my .02. This is not an easy fix but I would think we have smarter people than me that are able to come up with effective solutions.
 
Sound ideas, Joel. Any additional cover we can provide wildlife would be a good thing.

Didn't the gov't. attempt to accomplish a river improvement on the Minnesota river? Have not seen any recent reports that reviews this project...
 
Carrots and sticks have been used in agriculture with varying success. Generally compliance is greater when a person voluntarily enrolls in a program.

I wonder about the quality of nesting habitat, which is what is needed, buffer strips offer. Looks to me a coyote could wander down each side of a strip and do serious damage to nesting birds.

Hunting habitat and nesting habitat are two different beasts, from what little I know.
 
I recall my day's hunting Iowa; seems there were buffer strips along the many creeks that I hunted. Also, there were terraces that had grass growing between the hills - these held birds as well.

Perhaps the Iowa hunters can offer their thoughts - what seems to work ?
 
McFarmer said:
Carrots and sticks have been used in agriculture with varying success. Generally compliance is greater when a person voluntarily enrolls in a program.

I wonder about the quality of nesting habitat, which is what is needed, buffer strips offer. Looks to me a coyote could wander down each side of a strip and do serious damage to nesting birds.

Hunting habitat and nesting habitat are two different beasts, from what little I know.
Click to expand...

McFarmer I agree we need both. In the buffer strips I have hunted lots of cattails and stuff grow in the bottoms with plenty of fall cover and nesting habitat in the spring and summer along the tops. Predators are always an issue but kept in check I think most can survive together.
 
Goldenboy

I don't know where the notion of eminent domain came up in this discussion. Certainly that is not what I was getting at when starting this topic. My understanding is that eminent domain was to be used "for the greater good", in other words we all benefit by someones loss, I would think that the majority of uses has been for roads, powerlines, infrastructure developments that benefit the many, not the few. That changed when an Ohio case went all the way to the supreme court, which sided with the developer and local government to force people out of their riverside homes so that "upscale" development could be done. A total misuse and naked grab in my book. Consequently, many states have strengthened their laws to prevent such abuse. If the government buys it, or gets it through eminent domain, the landowner does not pay taxes.

So while we are on eminent domain, what do you all think of that as a necessary tool to protect our water and natural resources that sustain us all-assuming some unwilling sellers?

My problem with conservation programs, and the farmers desire to manipulate their land as much as they can to maximize dollars, seems to be incompatible in anything other than short term, and only if they follow the specs.

What say all of you?

Dan
 
Dan, I think he was referring to the idea of a "forced sale" of these buffer strips.

The worst offenders I see around here are the farms which are owned by an absentee landowner, managed by a land management firm and farmed by a large operator on a yearly basis.

All are out for the most dollars in the shortest time. This is the result of policies we don't have the bandwidth to solve.
 
Just saying I see both sides of the argument and want to be fair to both parties if we start to make laws. I have seen emanate domain in my family as recently as 5 years ago! My brother owned a beautiful lake home on 20 acres in Northern MN. A new iron mine decided they wanted to start up in the area and he was "forced" to sell to the mining company. Didn't sit well with him or my family since the "new' mine project has now been put on hold and he has had to move and leave a beautiful piece of property.
As far as farmers go I would feel the same way if someone told me I have to sell certain buffers of land. While I agree it is for the benefit of me and all of society, it still smacks in the face of the American tradition of freedom. This is not an easy question but one we definitely need to address.
Thanks for bringing the question to the forum.
 
I think this topic has teetered to the point of ridiculous. Thomas Jefferson once said, "a government that is big enough to give you everything you want, is also big enough to take away everything you have". Eminent Domain? Really? You can't go taking from the farmer.

Don't get me wrong. There should be provisions in the ag industry to control pollutants and keep runoff to minimums based on Best Management Practices. They put that crud on their land, they can keep it there. IMO, there should be pond/sedimentation basins dug on every property to trap or slow the junk leaving the land. They can bring their nice tractor backhoes (that they use maybe 2 times a year) to dig out the sludge and pay a hazardous disposal fee to get rid of it.

But you can't go throwing around Eminent Domain... jeez
 
Well it looks like Big Ag won this one. The author of the bill said it has no future.

The biggest complaint was that this is too 'one size fits all'.

If they had tried to stratify this bill then the opponents would have said the bill was too convoluted.

I grew up in a farming town in Iowa. I have personal relationships with lots of farmers in MN and the Dakotas. I know they are good, hard working people. However, our economy is one of CAPITALISM. The ability to maximize profit will always win despite the collateral damage...unless proper regulations are put in place.

I really don't care for Dayton, but this was a step in the right direction. Our natural habitat and water cannot protect itself. It needs defenders. I just wish we had more money.

I write this after a 3 hour drive on HWY 12. If I had a nickel for every roll of tile I saw...
 
Many times when something big gets promoted and subsequently gets shot down folks get to thinking. Get enough folks thinking about a problem and a solution eventually presents itself. It might not be the one either side would have wanted, but maybe for the best.

Wars and battles and all that.

Oh, and it was too sweeping. In my opinion.

Those rolls of tile aren't going to destroy much habitat, they will reduce water quality and increase flooding, also in my opinion. But that to is a broad statement. There are situations where tile can improve water quality.

In short, conservationists need to keep fighting.
 
Click on link below. A timely story. Last weeks Strib had another article by the same writer, about the Des Moines (Iowa) water agency, which supplies drinking water to Des Moines, suing 2 counties in Iowa, for pollution of 2 rivers which are sources of Des Moines drinking water. Very interesting reads, I think.

Dan





http://www.startribune.com/local/301324001.html
 
0fer2 said:
Click on link below. A timely story. Last weeks Strib had another article by the same writer, about the Des Moines (Iowa) water agency, which supplies drinking water to Des Moines, suing 2 counties in Iowa, for pollution of 2 rivers which are sources of Des Moines drinking water. Very interesting reads, I think.

Dan





http://www.startribune.com/local/301324001.html
Click to expand...

There's your tile lines at work. Buffers would do little for nitrates.
 
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