Burning NWSG compared to Mowing and Disking

F

Freeborn

Member
I’m planning ahead and trying to figure out what I will want to do with my NWSG when it needs to be burned/mowed. Between last year and this years plantings I will have about 45 acres of NWSG that will need to be rejuvenated at some time. I have heard that burning is by far the best method to rejuvenate NWSG but I don’t know that is the case first hand. Is burning that much better then mowing and disking? How soon would you burn/mow to get the best NWSG stand as you can?

I’m in Minnesota and would be willing to learn how to burn by either volunteering to help burn other peoples NWSG or by taking a class. I

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
 
What are the results your after with your NWSG?
What is it like right now?
Do you have pheasants and other ground nesting birds?
Ground nesting birds including game birds need the cover and old growth grasses for nesting and brood raising.
Disking, Mowing and burning will eliminate the nesting and brood rearing possibilities.
Remember the best upland bird areas in the US are NOT burned, disked or mowed.
 
Need to burn or disc depends on where you are. More eastern locations of tall grass where there is more moisture need to be burn't and maybe disced in a rotational basis, to avoid rankness and monoculture. I would never burn the whole shootin' match at once though. Burn on a three year rotation, equal thirds, as close to possible. This has served me well in the latitude of north and central Missouri. West I concede there is less and less need to burn on the high plains. Difference is all in moisture per year. For me, the burn, greens up fast, this time of year promotes diversity of plant life and encourages a large amount of insects. So it becomes brood rearing habitat. 2nd year succession seems to be preffered for nesting, though a decent amount occurs in the burn area, less in the 3rd year high denser stuff. Much past three years you begin to loose the qualities that make the area attractive to upland birds. Disc nice wide firebrakes, notify the local fire department of your plans, have a water tank on hand,and burn into what ever breeze there is, easier with either a LOT of smoke eaters, or done in smaller,easier to contain pieces, evenings work good, wind dies down, and you can see the progress of glowing hot spots.
 
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I’m in West Central Minnesota and my soil is sandy loam. I would not designate my area as being arid. I planted about 35 acres of a taller nesting cover mix in 2011, and this spring will plant another 10 acres of shorter grass higher forbs content brooding mix. Last year was my first year of growth and it established very well but as I understand it takes three years to get a complete stand of NWSG.

I currently only have pheasants nesting in my slew as the grasses are not yet established.

My CRP contract requires a 3 year rotation on mowing/burning and I agree that is a very good practice as it maintains nesting cover while you rejuvenate your NWSG.

Disc nice wide firebrakes, notify the local fire department of your plans, have a water tank on hand,and burn into what ever breeze there is, easier with either a LOT of smoke eaters, or done in smaller,easier to contain pieces, evenings work good, wind dies down, and you can see the progress of glowing hot spots.
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Thanks for the good advice. OK, what is a smoke eater and how wide to you consider wide firebreaks? I would brobably be burning 10 acres per year and could easily break that up into 3-5 acres areas.

Thanks for the good advice.
 
The base axiom is "You cannot maintain NWSG grasslands without the use of fire"! These grasslands (grass species) evolved under the pressures of fire and grazing. Both are necessary to ensure the health of these grasslands. CRP is not designed to allow grazing, so the other tools have to be applied judiciously to mimmic what is missing.

You have to decide what stage your grassland is in to make the proper decisions about management. Is brush invading? Is thatch becoming a barrier to broodling movement? Are cool-season grasses becoming dominant?

A critical assesment of your grassland is necessart for you to start this process. Walk across your grass. Can you see your feet? Grab a handful of a grass clump. How many years of thatch are you holding? Can you see bare ground? What %? How many forbs do you see, 10% 50%? How much rainfall do you average? What equipment do you have or can you borrow? Who will help? Does anyone have experience or training with fire? What about fire breaks?

Many of these questions should have been considered when you set up your contract. Properly placed food plots could have doubled as fire breaks. Forb plantings too could have been used as fire breaks.

If you have limited bare ground, fewer forbs that earlier years, excessive thatch, brush invading, it is probably time for a fire. Mowing has far more negatives to upland birds than it has positives. It is also the most expensive of the methods you've listed. Disking is used to promote forbs, not enhance the grass species generally. Well planned disked fire breaks will provide the forbs you need for brood-rearing. If your planting is under 3 years of age, you probably don't need to burn yet. Further east, where rainfall exceeds 30 inches per year, burning might be needed in the second or third year as succession is much faster with additional rainfall.

The safest burn is a backfire. A backfire is a fire that burns into the wind. It is slow, has lower flame heights, and most easily controlled. The down side is that it heats the ground up more and tends to dry out the soil. On any burn, make sure you have a soil profile full of water before you burn. This will ensure prompt greenup, protecting your soil from sun, wind, and rain. The above advice to burn in a 3 year rotation is very sound. That reduces your work load each year and provides 3 successional stages for your upland birds to use. Mowed fire breaks are better than none, but require wet lining and more help and water than disked. You will need winds stable and under 15 miles per hour with a humidity of 40-80%. Make sure no cold fronts or low pressure systems are within 24 hours of you when you burn. Good luck and good hunting!!!
 
I can't see what your NWSG is like. Sandy Loam soils in WC MN are not going to get to thick or soddy for pheasants. The reason your pheasants are nesting in the marsh is because it's the best nesting cover available.
What type grass is in the Marsh? Does it get to thick for pheasant nesting and brood rearing? Much more likely for the Marshland to get soddy and matted then your upland WSG.
Burned grasslands in Light soil drys out easily. WSG in our area won't do much growing until June.
Burning might be good to rejuvenate a WSG land or mowing or disking.
But this is NOT with pheasants in mind.
 
Mnmthunting, I don't know what assertion you're trying to make by claiming burning is NOT good for pheasants when managing CRP plantings. The only negative the practice has to pheasants is during the year of the burn. This is easily defrayed by the three year rotation within a patch. The increased brood-rearing success in the current year's burn and the increased nesting success in the previous 2 years burn will more than offset the loss of nesting habitat in the 1/3 that is burned this year. Letting a patch get rank and choked with thatch will be exceptionally more harmful than a well thought out burn in the current year.
 
Freeborn said:
I’m in West Central Minnesota and my soil is sandy loam. I would not designate my area as being arid. I planted about 35 acres of a taller nesting cover mix in 2011, and this spring will plant another 10 acres of shorter grass higher forbs content brooding mix. Last year was my first year of growth and it established very well but as I understand it takes three years to get a complete stand of NWSG.

I currently only have pheasants nesting in my slew as the grasses are not yet established.

My CRP contract requires a 3 year rotation on mowing/burning and I agree that is a very good practice as it maintains nesting cover while you rejuvenate your NWSG.


Thanks for the good advice. OK, what is a smoke eater and how wide to you consider wide firebreaks? I would brobably be burning 10 acres per year and could easily break that up into 3-5 acres areas.

Thanks for the good advice.
Click to expand...

Smoke eaters,just an inside joke for lots a guys or gals with wet blankets, shovels, any fire suppressing material. I use 30 foot disc and mowed firebreaks, if I can use a water wagon to wet down the breaks all the better. Despite the careful planning, sooner or later you'll either loose a burn or come uncomfortablly close! Memories of a 160@ burn on my aunts place, with flames dancing around the invalid neighbors propane tank come to mind! To hot, to big, wind changed and started blowing a steady 40mph in the wrong direction, took me three days to put out all the burning hedge fence posts. That's when I formed the small and controlled burn theory. Served me well since. Good Luck, it's kind of fun.
 
The one in three years you burn might be the best hatch /brood year in three. Why waste a year?
In heavy snow country [most of the prime pheasant belt] Grassland is worthless to Wintering pheasants on the average year. Don't depend on climate change to have another open Winter soon. :)
Grasslands are important for nesting and brood raising and cover during storms. Hens need the thatch [old growth brown grass}
Game bird hens and all ground nesting birds and their young have evolved brown to match the dead grass NOT Black, NOT green. :rolleyes:
Young pheasants must have the security of the thatch [tenting effect] of the old growth grass and forbes. Ice storms, late winter storms, hail, and cold rain are annual events that take their toll on young birds.
Predation especially from the air.
Burned grassland with new green growth is NOT in anyway good pheasant production habitat. No protection of any kind.
Grass to thick for pheasants? I'm going to have to look harder, ain't never seen it.
I know I know:confused: There is a STRONG "ALL NATIVE ALL NATURAL" movement especially by USDA and USF&W and other gov types.
Just about none hunt, fewer give a crap about Ring Neck Pheasants.
Non native, introduced, invasive Ditch Parrots. Don't fit in with their agenda.

More proof? Go back to the Soil Bank then the CRP era. Not mowed, not burned, not disked and almost NEVER were native warm season grasses part of the seed mix. These old "thatch bound" Fields continued to produce pheasants by the 10's of millions. That is until they were turned black, mowed or disked:( That pretty much put an end to it, didn't it.:(
 
If you don't find prairie grass to thick to be of reasonable use except around the edges, you aren't hunting in Nebraska or points south. Come on down, we'll take you to the field. As as far as Soil Bank, it was largely WEEDS, and volunteer grasses, not presrcibed native grass, we had birds during and after, more than now. I trace the timeline from the late 70's on, when the conventional wisdom became higher doses of chemical application, herbicides, pesticides, and a movement away from 4 bottom equipment, to 32' . The prairie grass movement with CRP is not as effective as the "leave it be", Soil Bank. The CRP with brome and fescue is worthless. Some of these contracts have mandatory mow provisions, leaving the golf course effect, adding insult to injury.
 
Mnmt, I still haven't heard any "proof", just your usual anti-government stance. Oldandnew has hit it on the head. Soil bank was largely go back instead of planted NWSG. The lower successional status of that cover type was more conducive to pheasants than CRP. Further, most of the winter wheat belt was largely summer fallowed, leaving half of the ground covered and providing habitat where now that is not the case. As for cryptic coloration, if that was such a significant advantage, we would not have any roosters by fall due to their copper and aqua tones. In many parts of Kansas, as much as 70% of the pheasants are hatched in green wheat. It's NOT brown. Once the cover provides some canopy, the birds will be hard to detect.

Anyone who has hunted Kansas WIHA has hunted CRP grass that is too thatchy to be productive. Hunt a thatchy one and cross the road and hunt one within 3 years of a burn and compare flushes. You'll often see 10-40X as many birds in the "rejuvenated" patch. As for winter cover, the old oxidized plants from more than a year previous have become brittle and will NOT stand up to frozen precipitation as well as the more flexible current year cover. If burned in March or early April, by nesting season in late April or May, the CRP will provide much the same cover as green wheat. As for brood-rearing capabilities, when you have plants harvesting 100% of the sunlight in freshly burned CRP, the insect population will be multiple times as much and significantly more available to the birds as it would be in a stagnant thatchy stand.
 
Probably some reasons for burning grasslands, it's NOT to benefit pheasants.

Whatever. Wishing You well.:cheers:
 
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Again with the threats Mnmt, what gives? I came to this site as a pheasant hunter. I did so at the request of the creator of this thread when he contacted me at a thread he had previously created. The fact that over 30 years of wildlife management experience came with me is just to the benefit of those who wish to use it. I offer it up freely. Some ask through threads, others by pm, some by email, and a few even by phone. For some reason you want folks to believe that, because for 40 hours a week the shirt I wear reads "State of Kansas", i am not to be believed. I don't hide who I am or where I live. I'm proud to be a pheasant hunter just as I am proud to be a wildlife biologist. I don't think that you'll find anywhere where I brag to be currently managing a pheasant area. I'm not. I did work on pheasant areas from 2001 to 1992 and then chose to move south and manage an area dominated by waterfowl, quail, deer, and turkey. That doesn't mean that I quit studying the craft. Quite the contrary. With the wife at her mom's, I got to get on the computer over lunch today and read your previous post, not your best work. I came to this thread to respond to Freeborn's question, no hidden agenda. He is wise to plan ahead and ask the pertinent questions long before the problems present themselves. This gives him (or her) the time to plan, prepare, and train so that the hill is a bump when it comes along. You act as if I have some hidden agenda, I don't. I love to hunt pheasants and care enough to give back from the training and experience I've accumulated during the other 40 hours per week. Just as I was asked to come to this site by it's creator, I will leave it if asked to do so. Until then, I wish you the best and ask that you not denigrate me because I work in a governmental setting. I came to that setting thinking my own thoughts and will pass those along to anyone who cares to listen.
 
Well said Troy. I for one find your input and knowledge to be invaluable and I look forward to your response to any questions that I may have.
 
I know one thing. After 5 years of good growth a NWSG stand is probably going to be thatch bound and of little use to adult birds let alone broods except during most extreme cold winter conditions.

In that case LIGHT IT UP!

I did this 2 years ago and by June 1 had a nice stand of clumpy NWSG coming back. By fall the hunters were complaining it was too thick to walk thru. Birds could navigate down low because the thatch was gone.
 
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Proof :confused:

How can I possibly prove that pheasant hens, native game birds and their young evolved brown along with ground nesting birds waterfowl etc. To blend with the thatch [old growth grass and forbes] Camo? Not black for burns or green for new grass growth?

Or; Young birds need the tenting effect of old growth grass for protection from elements. Cold rains, rain in general, ice storms, hail, wind chill all of witch are common and occur annually. That's a tough one:). Can't see where new green shoots have protection.

"all native all natural" movement by USDA and USF&W. Pheasant aren't native but another Asian transplant. Hmmmmm maybe a study?
Very few USDA and USF&W people hunt pheasants or care about pheasants. maybe another study.

Must be something else about burning grassland I can't prove? I'll work on it.:eek:

Reasons for burning grasslands should NOT include "aids in pheasant production" Simply not true.
 
mnmthunting said:
Proof :confused:

How can I possibly prove that pheasant hens, native game birds and their young evolved brown along with ground nesting birds waterfowl etc. To blend with the thatch [old growth grass and forbes] Camo? Not black for burns or green for new grass growth?

Or; Young birds need the tenting effect of old growth grass for protection from elements. Cold rains, rain in general, ice storms, hail, wind chill all of witch are common and occur annually. That's a tough one:). Can't see where new green shoots have protection.

"all native all natural" movement by USDA and USF&W. Pheasant aren't native but another Asian transplant. Hmmmmm maybe a study?
Very few USDA and USF&W people hunt pheasants or care about pheasants. maybe another study.

Must be something else about burning grassland I can't prove? I'll work on it.:eek:

Reasons for burning grasslands should NOT include "aids in pheasant production" Simply not true.
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I'll confess my issue with not burning has more to do with native bobwhite quail than pheasants. I do see more pheasants on rotationally burned native prairie or rotationally tilled, ground than the thatch bound ground. One issue you lose sight of is you need brood cover too! Thatchy thick to the ground stuff is poor brood cover, less insects, and while an adult pheasant can snake it's way through, day old chicks have a dickens of a time, be they pheasants or quail. I have no agenda driven by the desires of the Fish & Wildlife Service. I can see in arid parts of the west you can get by with old growth, in the lower midwest at least you simply cannot where native big bluestem, switchgrass, etc. rule the day. As stated previously, we were better off with the "go back" weeds of soil bank, than the management of and allure of warm season grasses, exclusively, a little, or actually a lot of both would be better. As far as "native" species and preference, I prefer quail, but am thankful for the opportunity to have pheasants. They have been here longer than I have so I consider them a "native" as much as myself. In any case the one thing we can agree on is that there is a universally poor job being done almost everywhere, either by design or accidental fortune when it comes to managing for upland birds. Together, we are a small voice, as witness by this thread, even we have disagreements among ourselves, about what's right and wrong, and proper management. I hope we all have wild birds to disagree over in 10 years.
 
Oldandnew, You know:) That really is a good post, makes good sense.

Except I have been trying to get this across. That pheasant producing country to the West. MAN! I've been around some as far as pheasant country. PLEASE don't get the idea the pheasant habitat in Montana's Pheasant country is sparse. Holy CRAP. Thick tangled brush and crap, Y'all better check it out.:thumbsup:
Not burned, disked or mowed just consistently produces pheasants in the harshest conditions that you won't see in the more Southern pheasant range.
I have hunted pheasant in Nebraska, LOTS across Iowa and SD, and ND you have no idea.:) Seen tons of good thick pheasant cover. Montana no doubt has the thickest tangles. Not in the short grass prairies, that's not pheasant country. Rivers, tributaries, intermittent flowing creeks and stuff like that has the pheasants. For sure:cool: hard to walk:confused: sometimes impossible but! you know pheasant do well.
 
So..... Back to the OP's question regarding discing.

If a guy can not do a burn and has a thick monoculture of 3-5 yr old thatch riddled NWSG, what's the best thing to do? Do you mow it about this time of year and then hit it with the disc, or just hit it with the disc?
 
GSP, some of the answer lies in what his contract allows him to do. Mowing does nothing much beneficial. It kills hens(though a disk could too-flushing bars help), adds to thatch, and doesn't disturb the status quo. If disking is an option, in the absence of fire it would be the next best option. Honestly, a heavy grazing for a month would be good, but isn't allowed in any contract I know of outside of a disaster declaration. As for the burns and color, if you only burn 1/3, the pheasants just move over and use the remaining cover until the burn greens up. As soon as hatching occurs the broods will generally move and spend a significant amount of time in the burn where the insect population will be higher and movement will be easier. Done correctly, the burn should begin to green up within days.
 
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