jeffstally
Member
Do you guys shoot bumped birds over a 7 month setter or only pointed birds?
Bumped Birds
- Thread starter jeffstally
- Start date
Fenway
Member
I don't shot bumped birds over a 3 year old Setter, if he doesn't point and hold I don't shoot, and if you start you'll have a flusher not a pointer.
I have trained pointing dogs for years. I'm a hunter first. Do you know it's a bumped bird? or is it a wild flush? If I had a dog which bumped birds, as in rushed in on hot bird scent and flushed hard like a springer, I would be doing a refresher course in yard training. On the other hand, especially with pheasants, if the dog is genuinely working, I take them as they come. Somedays, the pheasants just don't hold, period. Dogs figure this out. Point is to put birds in the bag. I have shot countless wild flush birds over, and around pointing dogs, never experienced one which became a flusher yet. Don't be fooled by all the purist dogma, you work to hard for any shot at a wild rooster, put him in the bag. Give the dog a chance for a retrieve, and a happy ending. You know dogs are smart, give them a chance to figure it out, they realize with experience , that a whole lot more birds which get pointed end up in the bag, and they know that's what your there for! I have read your other posts and assume you are talking about a young red setter. They are notorious slow starters, it takes them longer to develop, They are pretty good at finishing themselves, given ample opportunity, and time. It might take 2 years. You may suffer a while, but in the end you get a long lived dog, who can match any other. meanwhile shoot the darn bird, that's what your there for! and give couple a hundred years of breeding a chance to kick in. You have the equivalent to a 4 year old child, at 7 months, you wouldn't expect a 4 year old to drive you to town.
cheesy
Well-known member
I shoot them.
Like these other guys are getting at, when its middle of December, the birds are skittish, you're on public ground, the dog is trailing and the bird jumps 20 yards in front of the trailing dog, I'm going to shoot. If the dog is trailing and the bird jumps 5 yards in front of him, I'm still going to shoot.
Like these other guys are getting at, when its middle of December, the birds are skittish, you're on public ground, the dog is trailing and the bird jumps 20 yards in front of the trailing dog, I'm going to shoot. If the dog is trailing and the bird jumps 5 yards in front of him, I'm still going to shoot.
Fenway
Member
Yes I agree Pheasants don't always hold for a point thats why lots of pointy dog people don't like them, but there's a difference between a busted bird and a wild flush. If my dogs running running wild and jumping birds I'm not shooting them, if the dog points and the bird flushes on in own before I get there yes I'll shoot. I don't have a need to kill everything I see at the sake of having an untrained dog. I have a Springer and keeping him in range on a running Pheasant is hard enough, let alone trying to keep up with a pointer that that is bumping birds.
I guess it can be argued as to whether shooting a bumped bird is bad for your dog or not. That said, I don't know of anyone that could argue that it is a good thing. So why do it?
I take a lot of deer hunters bird hunting. They know enough not to shoot a mishandled bird over my dog. I personally don't shoot wild flushes, but have ZERO problem with them or anyone doing it. But bumped birds, no way.
Then again, the point of my hunting isn't to put birds in the bag. That's just the end result, well sometimes...
I take a lot of deer hunters bird hunting. They know enough not to shoot a mishandled bird over my dog. I personally don't shoot wild flushes, but have ZERO problem with them or anyone doing it. But bumped birds, no way.
Then again, the point of my hunting isn't to put birds in the bag. That's just the end result, well sometimes...
bobeyerite
New member
I think it has a lot to do with your dog. Some dogs you can shoot the bird and it will still point like a Champ. Others if you shoot them they want to flush. That is what known as reading your dog. Only you can be the judge of what will happen........Bob
I think that is a very good point Bob. With a seasoned dog, I think you are less likely to create problems. However, with a 7 month old pup, probably not so much.
To the OP'er, if you're going to shoot bumped birds, I wouldn't do it until you're damn good and positive that your dog is honest.
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
I shot a rooster yesterday that flushed wild. After the shot I couldn't see my 2 year old Brittany so I was calling her and blowing my whistle for her to come and make the retrieve. She still wan't coming. I found her solid on point about 30 yards away. Nope, I don't think shooting wild flushes over her will be an issue. 
I questioned the original poster as to whether they were bumped, as in enthusiactically flushed ala a springer, or merely flushed wild in fronnt of a dilligently working dog. The original poster has had experience with flushers in the past, not pointers, he also is working with a breed known to be a world class slow starter. i have not read any response by him. If a dog is a hard flushing,wild eyed runner, a refresher course in yard work is in order, and I would not take the dog afield until the solution is found. My question remains the same, which is it? and does he know the difference? I still shoot all wild flushes on pheasants, not on quail, bumped birds are a whole different subject, but I'm betting he lumped all non pointed flushes in gunrange into "bumped" birds. Either way he has an answer.
jeffstally
Member
You are right, OldandNew. I am new to pointing dogs. I was asking about bumped birds, not wild flushed bird though. My setter has had a good amount of wild bird contacts (not enough yard work with pigeons though) and he has flash pointed a few wild birds. Generally though, he flushes them. I have been told both ways. Some say to shoot the flushed birds anyway and that this can increase the dog's drive, others told me NEVER to do it.
The dog is an extremely hard charging dog in the field and has fire in his eyes, but he is not out of control and checks in with me often. When he gets on a bird, he will flush it but he won't chase into the next county. He naturally stays at around the 60 yard range.
Thanks for the clarification. I still think you have a very young dog, from a notorously slow maturing breed. I am more inclined to take it slow, I know the shorthair guys and other precocious breeds are all over this, but they don't have what you have, and I would be slow to rush the pup, or resort to harsh measures. I would also use quail if you can get them, much more field like behavior. pigeons tend to get up and wander around, staring at the dog! Quail tend to provoke a different response than pigeons, try that. Once staunch on quail, should be no looking back. Pheasants response to a fast and intense dog, is either run like hell, or freeze to stone,also leads to difficulty in handling them, experience will tell the tale, some dogs learn fast, some take a while, and there are a few which just never make much of a pheasant dog. My thought is yours will be o.k. age will fix a lot, experience will fix more,and that includes yard training games. First season with young dogs under a year, I don't expect much till after January, and then I'm happy with solid points, retrieve may happen first, even before solid point, or much later. Either way first season is a dog year, learn the ropes, after that it better be a hunter year! Good Luck.
Fenway
Member
I agree with oldandnew that a dog that young should not be pressured much just have fun and get bird crazy.
You say he hasn't pointed wild birds yet, what about other things rabbits, tweedy birds anything? If he's not pointing you sure don't want to shoot birds he's flushing running around. I wouldn't worry about his range either as far as stretching out let him you can bring him in later but usually can't ad range.
I agree too. I never said that I would punish the dog for bumping the birds. I wouldn't at that age. I'd take her back to the yard for some more work on trapped birds.
What I said was that I would not reward the dog for bumping the bird. And by shooting it, you're doing just that. One should not expect to put a lot of birds in the bag when following around a 7 month old setter pup. Be patient with her and she will reward you in time.
Fenway
Member
Yes I know you didn',t I was agreeing with you.
I bought a 3 year old Setter over the winter who was trained as a Grouse dog, never hunted Phez, had been on the Prairie birds no phez. I wanted to get him on lots of birds this year, so we go out to ND early oct. he does OK points 3-4 birds I shoot, but has some bumped birds, and had some trouble with runners, lots of unproductive's. I expected that, unfortunetly he steps in a hole and hurts his shoulder after two days, and is out for the next month. He has pointed a few birds here now that he's back, but thats not nearly enough to figure them out. If the weather doesn't get to bad I'm going back out to ND next weekend, and to KS in Jan. maybe he'll figure them out some by then, or as oldandnew said some never do.
I bought a 3 year old Setter over the winter who was trained as a Grouse dog, never hunted Phez, had been on the Prairie birds no phez. I wanted to get him on lots of birds this year, so we go out to ND early oct. he does OK points 3-4 birds I shoot, but has some bumped birds, and had some trouble with runners, lots of unproductive's. I expected that, unfortunetly he steps in a hole and hurts his shoulder after two days, and is out for the next month. He has pointed a few birds here now that he's back, but thats not nearly enough to figure them out. If the weather doesn't get to bad I'm going back out to ND next weekend, and to KS in Jan. maybe he'll figure them out some by then, or as oldandnew said some never do.
beaglebob1
New member
I agree with Bob:thumbsup: