at what age do dogs start to settle down in the field?

94NDTA said:
Roosters? Check

Young pup getting experience under birds? Check

Young pup getting some exercise? Check

Dog that actually wants to go hunting? Check.

Having fun with your family and your dog? Check.

Doesn't sound like a disappointing day to me. Enjoy them while you can. We only get dogs for so long, and even family for so long. Enjoy every moment.
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:cheers:

tomorrow will be a blast. taking my 6 year old daughter out. i am having a few birds released in an easy little field. hoping she has fun and i can get the seed planted.

it is me vs the disney princesses in a winner take all battle right now :D
 
just had a nice long conversation with the trainer/breeder. he mentioned everything that was brought up in this thread. genetics, nutrition, hydration, and everything else. my mind has been put to ease.

thanks again for all the info guys. :cheers:
 
Hmmm - feeding a dog in the AM or not. I asked my vet a week ago and he said: as long as its a couple of hours before the hunt/exercise, feed him. He sez they need the energy.

Regards racing about: typical puppy thing until about 3, depending on the dog and your hunting style. This behavior is not acceptable (for me) and I bring him back to heel, to calm down. If the dog is allowed to run wild, he'll probably continue.
 
HolyMoses said:
perhaps it isn't "unrelated". I have been wondering if a food switch is something i should consider. I have always wanted him to bulk up a little, but no matter how much i feed him, he just doesn't put on weight. vet says that he looks great and is healthy. stools look good, can just feel the ribs when petting him.

I feed Fromm Four star surf and turf. it is a grain free food and i went with it because of its high protein and fat value. here is the nutritional information:

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein 30% Min
Fat 19% Min
Fiber 3.5% Max
Moisture 10% Max
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.6% Min
Omega 6 Fatty Acids 2.8% Min
Total Microorganisms 220,264 CFU/g Min

View Detailed Analysis

Calorie Content
kcal/kg 4,092
kcal/lb 1,860
kcal/cup* 409

http://frommfamily.com/products/four-star/dog/dry/grain-free-surf-turf
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Don't worry about bulking him up now as he is still filling in at that age. As long as you can feel his ribs while running your hands along his side and you can see that slight hour glass shape from his shoulders to his hocks when looking from the top he's just fine.

There is NO set amount of food for any one dog. They all have different metabolisms just like people and activity level will also dictate how much you feed.

A cardinal rule is to feed according to body shape. The only thing I would say about feed would be if you have to feed 4 or more cups daily to maintain weight and shape then switch to a higher calorie food so you can cut back on the amount. 3.5 cups a day is fine as long as he looks good. As I described in my previous paragraph look at his shape and feel for a hint of ribs. Shorthairs are athletic looking dogs and if I had a nickel for every time a non dog person asked if they are supposed to look so thin I would be rich.
 
I'm like you Holy, I will feed half the days ration when I get home from hunting and the other half a 2-3 hours later.

Here's a good read on feeding performance dogs. Purina has probably done more research than anyone with regards to feeding and conditioning our canine athletes. Notice how the article stress fat as the primary energy source.

http://purinaproclub.com/Dog/Resour...f3b04a45/a69ea1cc-b8e5-49d6-a1d8-906c0e680905

From Purina Research Scientist Brian Zanghi, Ph.D. :

Do not feed a hardworking dog before exercise. Complete digestion takes from 20 to 24 hours. Dogs fed less than 23 hours before exercise could have fecal matter in the colon that could compromise their performance by adding extra weight. Additionally, exercise alters the gastrointestinal transit time and can change nutrient digestion and absorption, resulting in a decrease of oxygen in the gut.

"Generally, performance dogs should be fed a minimum of 10 to 12 hours before exercise," Zanghi says. "It is best to feed the night before a trial that is scheduled the next morning. When dogs are fed six hours or sooner before exercise, the body's fat burning enzymes are not optimized, which contributes to reduced endurance and energy generation. Studies have shown that endurance performance can be as much as doubled when dogs run on an empty stomach compared to having eaten four or less hours before exercise."
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Well, things went a lot better today! We did a quick little field that I had some released birds in, but then I paired up with some buds to do another spot. Close to four hours of some really really thick nasty stuff, and corn fields. My dog ran circles around the other dogs and when we got back to the trucks, he wanted more.

After my talk with the trainer and today's performance, I am pretty convinced that my issue yesterday was my fault. The only thing different from yesterday to today was how I hydrated the little guy. He does not like water in the field so I end up just splashing a little on his lips, or letting him get away with just a couple laps at the truck. Today, I force fed him. I would stop him every 20 or 30 minutes and if he wouldn't take it, I would open his mouth and force it. Also, at the truck I gave him Gatorade after he didn't want the water. He loved that stuff!

I also think the cold had something to do with it.

I am not sure what to do on the food. My breeder/trainer likes "heavier" looking dogs. He feeds his dogs a lot of food, but he is running them hard every single day. He also lives in the country where he doesn't worry about the mess. While I know I shouldn't let the amount of stool or the consistency of the stool completely decide how much I feed him, I do watch it closely. In the non hunting season, I take him a lot of places, and nothing is worse than him having the runs, which is usually what I find happens when I go over the 3.5 cup mark. His dogs are all different, but some of them get up to 10 cups a day during hunting season. Yes.....I said 10 cups per day. Crazy.
 
HolyMoses said:
...I am not sure what to do on the food. My breeder/trainer likes "heavier" looking dogs. He feeds his dogs a lot of food, but he is running them hard every single day. He also lives in the country where he doesn't worry about the mess. While I know I shouldn't let the amount of stool or the consistency of the stool completely decide how much I feed him, I do watch it closely. In the non hunting season, I take him a lot of places, and nothing is worse than him having the runs, which is usually what I find happens when I go over the 3.5 cup mark.....
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I would change that food rather than limit the volume in an attempt to control stool quality...yikes.

I would suggest you consider only a bit of Gatorade to flavor the water than the straight stuff.
 
birdshooter said:
Don't worry about bulking him up now as he is still filling in at that age. As long as you can feel his ribs while running your hands along his side and you can see that slight hour glass shape from his shoulders to his hocks when looking from the top he's just fine.

There is NO set amount of food for any one dog. They all have different metabolisms just like people and activity level will also dictate how much you feed.

A cardinal rule is to feed according to body shape. The only thing I would say about feed would be if you have to feed 4 or more cups daily to maintain weight and shape then switch to a higher calorie food so you can cut back on the amount. 3.5 cups a day is fine as long as he looks good. As I described in my previous paragraph look at his shape and feel for a hint of ribs. Shorthairs are athletic looking dogs and if I had a nickel for every time a non dog person asked if they are supposed to look so thin I would be rich.
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Yeah, 3.5 seems to be a good amount for him. he holds his weight, his stools are good, and I think he looks healthy. The only reason I wouldn't mind seeing a little itty bit of bulk, would be for the cold factor. I think it would maybe help a little, but I think a neoprene vest is a better option than knowingly overfeeding him. The nice thing about the fromm four star line is, you can switch recipes. I had a little bag of the beef based stuff, and i am trying to remember, but I thought he gained a little weight with it. I have a bag of that coming so maybe that will bulk him up a little without any increase in serving size. I did read somewhere that some dogs do better on different proteins, which seems sort of obvious I guess.

:cheers:
 
Googling "ways to flavor water for a dog" and there are some interesting ways.

Liver powder
Peanut butter powder



Or you can pay $35 for a 24 pack of 16 oz bottles of liver/beef/chicken flavored dog water :eek:
 
I think your doing just fine with the food, no worries.

On the water thing, my GSP doesn't take a lot of water in the field either unless it's really warm. I've always found that it's better to allow them small amounts of water here and there all throughout the day in the field and let them drink all they want at the end of the hunt. I mix some warm water in with the feed at days end to ensure a little more water also.

Try mixing a little Pedialyte in a 50:50 ratio with regular water. You can get it flavored or unflavored.
 
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One reason your dog might not drink your water when hunting is because he is drinking whenever he wants. Not to many places you'd pheasant hunt in Wisconsin where a dog is going to be far from standing water.
 
It's all in the genes.
Our 5 yr. old setter would continue at mach speed until his lungs burst. We have to forcibly stop him and make him sit until he catches his breath every 20-30 minutes or I believe he would run himself to death. I don't dare try to prove this. His speed does not affect his effectiveness.
 
Just an update.

First off thanks to all who contributed, especially bird shooter for his advice via PMs.

I have had the dog out numerous times since the day that sparked this thread. I feel the reason for him appearing worn out was 100% due to him being cold. We have had some pretty hard hunts since then and he hasn't missed a beat, but yesterday, when he decided to take a swim, early in our hunt, the same thing happened. He tucks tail between legs and wants to sit. I pet him up and even dried him off a little with my sweatshirt arm and he perked right up. Once he got moving again he went back to his usual self. I need to find him a neoprene vest.

As for the slowing down, it does seem that he is slowing down a little. Still runs pretty fast, but I haven't seem the full on sprinting that I was seeing. A friend of mine thinks it has to do with keeping him in the truck while waiting for the season to open. He gets so worked up he literally sits there trembling. On days when I go in the afternoon, he doesn't have that antsyness cause we don't have to wait in the truck for 20 minutes. I am confident after seeing him hunt the last half a dozen times that he will figure it out that he doesn't have to be such a mad man.

:cheers:

Again, thanks for all the input.
 
I think that as your dog gains experience, figures out that going bat out of hell crazy doesn't help him find birds he'll start to reel it in. Also, he's still a pup even though he may look like a full grown dog. He's excited!

Even older dogs will get hyped up the first ten or twenty minutes. We usually find a small patch or field to hunt first then work towards the better places because we know the dogs are going to be ape shit at first. As they burn off some of that they settle down and get into real work.

And stick with the Fromm's. Good old WI dog food.
 
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AtTheMurph said:
I think that as your dog gains experience, figures out that going bat out of hell crazy doesn't help him find birds he'll start to reel it in. Also, he's still a pup even though he may look like a full grown dog. He's excited!

Even older dogs will get hyped up the first ten or twenty minutes. We usually find a small patch or field to hunt first then work towards the better places because we know the dogs are going to be ape shit at first. As they burn off some of that they settle down and get into real work.

And stick with the Fromm's. Good old WI dog food.
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:thumbsup:

I am trying some things to calm him down a little. I have found that if I keep him in the kennel on the inside of the truck, he is a lot more "antsy" then if I just let him hang out in the backseat. I also think that making him sit there for extended amount of time before the sun rises also doesn't help. He gets himself all worked up to the point of drooling and trembling.

I just have to figure out how to harness the energy LOL!


He is progressing great IMO. A couple weeks ago I took my father out to the game farm. I had 8 birds released. we were back at the truck in 1 hour and 18 minutes. We shot at and missed 3 birds, and screwed up on 2 running roosters, so we should have had 5 more than we ended up with, but I was very proud of how the dog did.



what made the experience even better was that the guys in the next field had 20 birds released, and they paid to have a guide along, who just so happened to have a GSP. We didn't hear much shooting over there. In addition to that, when we went back to the lodge to check in, they were a bit surprised to see us there. The initial question was "you here to check in for an afternoon hunt?" I said "no, we are done already". great feeling.

as for the Fromm...I switched him to the "beef" stuff versus the "salmon" stuff and he has put some weight on. Seems to respond better to meat protein than fish protein.

:thumbsup:
 
and yes, the bird on the left is a chukar.....and they taste AMAZING!!!!!! I have never eaten one before but I couldn't believe how good it was.
 
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