any help, please? (sorry it's long)

L

low_glide

New member
I have a problem that I need help with, actually a couple. I have recently moved my lab and I in with my dad and his 2 labs and chessie. My uncle had a stroke, so I am now an accidental farmer and actually enjoy it, but my Christmas visit has gotten extended for who knows how long. My dog loves going to the farm, especially since we have an island in the river to work with. The problems are my dad's dogs. He doesn't hunt (disabled) and got all three of his dogs from the pound, or death row, as we call it. The male chessie (probably 4-6, Jake) and the young female lab (by what the shelter said would be around 2 now, Betsy) were found along with 2 more male littermates, living in the wild around June of 2009. Jake had been taking care of the pups and all were mangy and starving. My dad ended up taking the two of them and they look great now, but their behavior is less than desirable.

Anyway, Jake seems to have had some retriever training, but shows a lot of signs of previous abuse. I brought home a Dokken duck and he freaked out, in a good way. He was immediately excited when he saw it and he has really taken to retrieving the frisbee, and although he pulls his head to keep it from me, he drops it the instant I get a hold of it. He lacks any semblance of confidence, has terrible separation anxiety, and fear of abandonment to the point of being a pest. Does anyone on here have any experience or advice for this situation?

Now, the girl, Betsy, she has no discipline and is a major pain in the butt. She seems confused by scolding and just plain doesn't listen unless it's convenient to her. She is as frisbee obsessed as the rest and has an amazing prey drive, when it comes to cats at least. I'm ok with a cat killer if it is on the farm, but my dad lives in town, so it makes her rather unpopular. I don't think she ever really bonded with any people when she was young and has no basic training at all. How do I go about getting come, sit, stay and heel trained to a dog this age and background?

Anyway, thanks for any help anyone can give. I'm sorry to ask a question like this on a hunting forum, but I'm at a loss on how to handle this. I'm not looking to hunt any of them besides my boy, but some manners around the house would be nice and Betsy's not listening could be a dangerous situation. My lab is doing great, especially for my first dog of any kind. He was very easy to train and we haven't had any stumbling blocks other than he was around my brother's border collie too much. I could brag endlessly on him, but my opinion is a tad biased. Any help is appreciated.
 
It's going to take a lot of time and patience. The good news is after the farm chores are done, plenty of time for dog work! I would get a copy of Barbara Woodhouse's " no bad dogs", a wealth of reform behavior info delivered by a slightly eccentric lady. She can get a dog to do anything.
 
The old saying you cant teach an old dog new tricks is a bunch of crap. Throw a leash and pinch collar on betsy and just work obediance like you would a puppy. When you take her outside clip a check cord on her buckle collar so you can now enforce commands. Probably the most important thing with her is to not give a command you cannot enforce. A little time is all it will take. Oh yea do your best to not get frustrated and be consistent.

The male will be a bit tougher but I really think time and patience are the key. Socialization of a pup is the most important thing a pet owner can do. I am not to sure how to step back with an older dog. But I think love and attention are key to building confidence, with confidence the rest will come togather.

Good luck it might be a bit of work but it is worth it

PS My best dog is a rescue.......
 
Thanks for the advice. She is a frustrating critter sometimes, but I try to remember that it is not her fault. I have got all of them to sit and wait for a treat, but it only works if I have a treat in my hand. I think they are all smart enough, I just have to work to get the right behaviors out of them.
 
Do some studying on clicker training. You may find that getting her to work for the click than rewarding with a treat may work better. I know this clicker stuff sounds kind of goofy..... I spent yesterday learning to use a clicker and a pinch collar to "force fetch" a gsp lab cross. Wow after about 5 10 min sessions she will pick hammers, pinch collars, you name it
(deliverd to hand with no rolling). Granted this dog is smart as a tack and has strong obediance but she is soft. I doubt she would handle the pressure of an ear pinch. Her owner is tickled.
 
My aunt showed me some stuff with a clicker. She has used it on her dogs some, but said that she used it a lot, with great success, on horses. I think I'll try it on the girl and see if I can get her to relate her behaviors with a reward. Thanks for reminding me of it. :)
 
Gatzby said:
Do some studying on clicker training. You may find that getting her to work for the click than rewarding with a treat may work better. I know this clicker stuff sounds kind of goofy..... I spent yesterday learning to use a clicker and a pinch collar to "force fetch" a gsp lab cross. Wow after about 5 10 min sessions she will pick hammers, pinch collars, you name it
(deliverd to hand with no rolling). Granted this dog is smart as a tack and has strong obediance but she is soft. I doubt she would handle the pressure of an ear pinch. Her owner is tickled.
Click to expand...

That's great!
I've been kicking around using clicker training myself. Partially just to give the dog another way to learn. I think I developed a bad habit in her deliver, so it'll be a fresh exeperience for both of us. If I could get 5 sessions like youre saying, sweet. Im fine with it taking longer though. I would be curious to hear more on your process if you don't mind sharing.

Keep at it Low. My folks rescued a lab a few months ago (18mos old at the time). It's tough dealing with a bigger dog who acts like a total pup. Just treat them with the patience you would a tiny pup, and you'll be fine. with patience and time. they'll come around. :cheers:
 
C_D

I started learning the process of clicker training about a year ago but really didn't embrace until this winter. The big benifits of clicker trainging are you eliminate emotion (IE clicker sounds the same no matter how you feel), and when you mark an "action" you can be very precise. Plus the dog doesn't need to see a treat in your hand to respond.

I will give a short explanation of the handful of steps needed to achive a conditioned retreive. I am very poor at explaining things on paper so bear with me.

1 HAND TOUCHS start with a treat in your left hand the instant pup grabs treat mark this action with clicker. Once he will go to your left hand consistently offer your left hand without a treat when his nose touchs your hand "click" and reward with treat. In no time a pup will just luanch to touch his nose to your palm.

2 GRABS (Note I use a dumbell versus a bumper to promote proper hold). Now offer a dumbell with your left hand. Pup will probably dive to dumbell, when he does touch the dumbell "click" and reward. Soon pup will mouth bumper when this happens "click" and reward. Slowly wait longer and longer, pretty soon pup will be holding on to the dumbell until you "click" and reward. Note (If at any point pup does not go for dumbell take it away and reoffer). This step can be slow and requires patience.

3 HOLD AND RELEASE have pup heel while you are seated on a stool. Place your dumbell under pups chin (right hand) when pup is calm open his mouth (left hand) and place dumbell behind cainine teeth now hold his mouth shut with right hand (don't pinch lips). Wait for pup to calmly hold dumbell when he does "click" and reward. Good tells are no rolling of dumbell, wrinkels relaxing on forehead, or a very pronounced gulp. This is a bugger with some and a walk in the park with others. A pheasant wing after the dumbell is mastered can be REALLY challanging with some. Stick with it untill pups hold is rock solid. This is the point I started at with the mixed breed.

4 CONDITIONED FETCH while sitting on stool with pup wearing a pinch collar apply pressure to pinch collar with left hand and offer dumbell with right hand. (You add a command like fetch or whatever you chose.) Pup will grab dumbell, instantly release pinch collar at time of grab. Let pup hold dumbell while you stroke his head. Give release command and "click" and reward. Keep offering dumbell lower and lower untill pup is grabbing it off the ground. (Note the amount of pressure depends on the dog). I start with light pressure and slowly increase as pup learns that the faster he moves the faster the discomfort goes away. This part is very much like ear pinch or toe hitch except pup already knows what to do and the pressure just makes him do it with speed and desire. Plus he will pick up anything!!!

5 WALKING FETCH clip a lead on the pups pinch collar and while he is walking at heel apply pressure with lead offer dumbell and say fetch. When pup grabs dumbell release pressure and walk backwards quickly. Pup will return to you, give release command "click" and reward. It may have been the shortest fetch ever but it was perfect. Switch to a check cord and stretch it out.

When all this is solid start skipping the clicker more and more often till you don't use it at all.

I hate to place a time line on these steps. Just take your time and get each step solid. When you introduce birds you may need to start at step 2 and move rapidly to 3 to eliminate chomping. If you find an object pup will not pick up repeat only step 2 using the object pup has refused.

Here are a couple more random thoughts..... If you click even by accident you must reward. Also their is a pretty good chance pup will not accept treats after finishing walking fetch as the act of retreiving is better than any old dog treat.

I hope this makes sense (but I doubt it does). I would be happy to show the steps in person if you live nearby
 
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