An interesting conversation I had about ND and SD pheasants

calamari

Member
First, I make no representation about the truthfulness of what I was told but the person who told me this seemed credible. I believe everyone until proven otherwise. This occurred in a stubble field in MT.
He said his son works for a company in Wis. that raises 100,000 pheasants for shipment to hunting operations all over the US. They use a very clever way to get birds that are 50% wild and then feed them a diet that results in smaller birds that are very good fliers. They use a feed supplement that bonds with the feathers as they grow that makes them much more flexible and less prone to break. Why? Long good looking tails on the birds after shipment. He said that although they will ship anywhere and do, they sell primarily to farmers in NoDak and SoDak and their contracts require that the birds be delivered in the middle of the night and planted at that time. They have to be gone well before morning hunts. I met his son who was hunting and he was one of the few hunters I met with well used equipment so I give him high marks for credibility too. He could be hunting in NoDak or SoDak as their season was just opening and given his contacts but he was in Mt for what that's worth.
 
Most of the raised pheasants that are shipped to SD are going to hunting preserves as they are required to release so many per year. And they probably release more than the required amount so they have enough birds for the people that hunt there. As for the secret part of delivery that is something I have never heard before. My only explanation would be places that are billing their hunts as "wild bird" hunts don't want their clients to know they are hunting released birds. But my guess is if these night time deliveries do happen, it is in a very small percentage of the birds being sold.
 
100,000 birds raised from just one operation is no small number and going to the extra effort to have good fliers with unbroken plumage would I imagine come at a premium. Meeting a planting ratio requirement wouldn't be conditioned on anything other than being alive I'd imagine so I think they were intended to be pursued and shot.
I will say that, although he didn't remember it, this was the second time I talked to the guy in 3 years and he was consistent in his personal history when we talked being a stock broker and educated.
Planting birds at night makes sense from more than a covert basis in that the birds would tend to stay where put after dark keeping them where intended. In Calif. when they used to trap wild pheasants for replanting it was all done at night with ATVs, a strong spotlight and a weighted round throw net. They don't fly at night by choice.
But as I say it's what I was told by someone I met in a stubble field.
 
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Planting birds

The hatchery is in Janesville, Wisconsin and it's a huge operation. I'm pretty sure the birds I've been chasing out of the ditches out there grew up in SD. They routinely outfox my dog and me, and then when they do give me a chance, I miss.
 
Many of the preserves in Minnesota had a very tough time procuring birds a couple of years ago ... SoDak operations came in and bought everything not under contract.

A few years ago a Twin Cities outdoor writer hunted a large SoDak outfit and noticed that a good percentage of roosters had marks on their beaks from nasal tags.

So it does happen ... but this is likely limited to operations charging $400 - $500 or more per day.
 
There's a large (location mentioned by mgorvi) breeder who offers birds that come from pens with fewer pheasants within each pen. Birds do not have peepers/blinders. This makes for a hardy pen bird that doesn't have a hole in it's nostril and tail feathers that are typically "paddled" at the end (like wild birds). They seem to have more "wild-like" characteristics than most pen birds.

The point of these birds are to offer a wild looking bird with a wild-like personality. Are they releasing birds at night? I'm sure at some operations they would prefer this so if I had to guess, the gentlemen was probably right.


Nick
 
I think the title of this thread makes it sound as tho all the pheasants in SD and ND are pen raised?? That could be no further from the truth. Yes game farms buy pheasants to stock. Like some one said the preserves are required to release so many every year. The pay for hunt operations are always buying and releasing pheasants. No surprise, but there are still thousands of acres of public land with wild birds that just cost a license, fuel and sweat!!
 
3car;I think the title of this thread makes it sound as tho all the pheasants in SD and ND are pen raised??

I agree. To that point; The last time someone (within the group I hunt with) or myself shot a pen raised bird in SD was my cousin back in 2007--he shot 1. We primarily hunt public land and some ditches.

The pay for hunt operations are always buying and releasing pheasants

That's a good point. Operations where they have day-in and day-out hunting parties hunting their property, they have to replenish bird numbers for the next group/party. Obviously this is not the case with all pheasant hunting operations. Some are 100% wild bird operations.

Nick
 
I think the title of this thread makes it sound as tho all the pheasants in SD and ND are pen raised??
How the title, "An interesting conversation I had about ND and SD pheasants" equates to "All pheasants in ND and Sd are pen raised" sounds like somebody cut english class to go hunting. It was an interesting conversation that dealt with pheasants that are planted in those states. No more. No less.
As far as getting a more "wild" bird he said that where the operation is located there is a good population of wild birds in surrounding fields. The pens are constructed of chain link fence with no netting top. They only put wing clipped hens in the pens with no roosters. Wild roosters fly in to breed with the captives giving a 50% wild bird. I didn't know that Wisconsin had that large a population of wild birds to allow that to be an effective method but I've never been there. Seems like it would raise questions of disease in transported birds too.
One more factoid about night planting. About 55 years ago when I was in high school one of the premium short term jobs in our town was transferring fresh chickens into the pens at the egg producing chicken operations after Swanson had hauled off the old hens for introduction to a pie crust. We'd move 10,000 chickens from a semi truck and trailer full of cages and it started at dark and went to sunup. Birds that escaped instead of running away would just hunker down near the chicken houses and we'd catch them after all the others were put in their cages. Birds don't move after dark.
 
How the title, "An interesting conversation I had about ND and SD pheasants" equates to "All pheasants in ND and Sd are pen raised" sounds like somebody cut english class to go hunting.

Calamari, I think what he meant was portions of the thread give SD/ND that feel, not the title. At least that's how I took it;).

Regardless it's a good thread my friend.:cheers:

Those open pens--- I know this is how the large breeder in Wisconsin got their "Kansas Blue-back" blood lines.

Adding this in/edit. You mentioned birds staying put at night. Years ago, I belonged to a club that planted birds at night just for that reason. They'd stay put. It worked well because birds they were still there by the next morning until (after a while) the foxes and coyotes got smart to it to the point there wasn't anything left for the hunters. lol

Nick
 
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The operations in the other parts of the US are very different from the way clubs are run in Calif. Here you can buy a day shoot of say 3 pheasants for $85 dollars or buy a card of birds of say 10, 20, 50 or 100 quail, Chukars or pheasants. When you plan to hunt you call and make a reservation of a field for the day and only you can hunt there. You also tell them how many birds you want planted and they do it either while you wait at the field or just before you drive out to it. Your card is reduced by the number planted and you can shoot as many as you can find which often includes left over birds from previous hunters. If you don't get any of the birds planted your card is still reduced by the number planted. They don't plant 200 birds all over the property and turn everyone loose to go where they want. Our clubs are more for dog training and new hunter experiences but if you pick a windy day it can be as sporty as any wild bird hunt.
Our hunting season is 5 weeks long starting mid November but the club season runs from Oct to as late as March depending on what zone the club is located in.
Planting a bunch of birds the night before seems like there is more of an attempt to provide a "real" hunt than what we get.
 
Planting a bunch of birds the night before seems like there is more of an attempt to provide a "real" hunt than what we get.

I think so. From what I've experienced in the past, "planted" birds are found vs. "released" birds chased if that makes sense. Generally speaking too.

Nick
 
"planted" birds are found vs. "released" birds chased if that makes sense. Generally speaking too.Nick
Generally speaking I'd disagree. Planted birds can be put in as an obscure place as a released bird will go to. It depends more on the owners commitment to a better experience than any real difference in the two types of pen raised birds release. You don't have to see where the bird is planted and if they aren't" spun" to hold them in place can be anywhere in a 100 acre field when you finally look for them.
Because birds always get away, a number of operations in my area also sell afternoon memberships to "clean up" birds missed or lost by card holders. No birds are planted and you can shoot all you jump. Often guys get quite a mixed bag of birds. Often they get nothing because the raptors are on club birds very quickly.
One piece of information about dog/bird behavior. I've shot a lot of birds for a friend who wants to train his Brittanys and take pictures of them on point. Sometimes he'll have the birds planted, after spinning to keep them in place, and have a piece of flagging tied to a weed to mark their location. His dogs will often point and creep like guys say their dog is doing on a running bird. That's not what is actually happening. The dogs will scent the bird from sometimes over 100 yd.s away and as the wind's eddies strengthen and weaken the scent, move or lock up as they work toward the flagging marking where the stationary bird is located. I'm not saying this is always the case but it has been very often the wind that makes it seem like birds that are actually quite a distance away are creeping away from you. They only run when there is noise or distance to mask the sound of their own movements.
 
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I know the person your talking about, and it is a fact. I have a person I buy birds here from that did the same thing. I posted this a few years back LOL. Its true. Night delivery, the whole ball a wax. They advertise wild hunts. The guys birds you mention do come from wild roosters, that breed hens clipped in open top pens. Did not know about the feed. Not sure I want to eat genetically engineered birds LOL. Although, my knees could use some flexibility. We use the same birds for our trials. They are very good birds.

The only people being ripped off are the ones "paying" for a wild hunt. Otherwise, birds no matter what some think, become wild rapidly. It does good in "areas". Your talking a thousand here, couple thousand there. Not all hundred thousand in one spot. Also keep in mind that those places shoot thousands each year too. There is many more growers that sell birds out there other then him. If you think he is big look at a few others LOL. Forsgrens have like a mile section of nets. I would say it has to be closer to 500,000 birds. I know 6 large growers that sell birds out there. 2 that have told me about night delivery. It makes perfect sense.

But, more also seem to go to SD. There are plenty of wild birds, way way more. They all were released at one time, and are every year. So no big deal. As far as blinder recognition:eek:. I have raised them for eons, and buy pen birds for training weekly. Not sure what blinders people have used somewhere that make these big identifying holes. I have looked several times now at both side by side and there is 0 difference. And "NO", the wild birds that are compared, are not pen birds. If you shoot some of those birds that have been out there for a while. You will have no clue. Go enjoy.:cheers:
 
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Did not know about the feed. Not sure I want to eat genetically engineered birds LOL... We use the same birds for our trials. They are very good birds.
I don't think they are genetically engineered. It's a food supplement not unlike adding a missing mineral or an antibiotic. Bird quality can vary greatly based on the growers. The best example I can think of is one guy out here will plant 5 birds for $100 dollars. My dog doesn't care and the older guy who used to hunt pheasants when he was a young man that I bought them for had a good time. My dog however would have caught all of the birds if I hadn't called her off the bird once she found it. When flushed they barely flew and were nothing like other club birds I've shot. Overcrowded growing conditions as evidenced by their busted up tails and super big and fat size. Delicious, yes. Sporty, not so much. Other places, the birds are smaller and very strong fliers. The way the birds are raised in the big eastern operations seem like the way to get the very best fliers.
The only people being ripped off are the ones "paying" for a wild hunt.
I went into a sporting goods store in Montana this year and found a group of 7 guys clogging the aisle at the ammo display. One guy said,"Those are the shells I used to rip that bird out of the sky yesterday" as he pointed at some boxes. The other 6 in their brand new faced pants, shirts, and safari hats looked at him like they just heard their masters voice. I had to get out of there before I puked but those guys would pay for a hunt on planted birds represented to be a wild bird hunt and then go home and serve the birds on toast at one of their parties while regaling everyone with stories of their excursion to the great wild west.
Otherwise, birds no matter what some thing, become wild rapidly.
Out here the the birds that aren't shot, the raptors get very quickly. In fact, when I've gone out after a missed bird I just look for the Northern Harrier sitting on the ground and go there. Invariably the bird is hiding within 10' of where the raptor was sitting. Being planted as a relatively large flock instead of as singles would improve their chances for survival. In studies I've seen done back east only 1% of planted birds that aren't shot survive the winter.

Not sure what blinders people have used somewhere that make these big identifying holes. I have looked several times now at both side by side and there is 0 difference. And "NO", the wild birds that are compared, are not pen birds. If you shoot some of those birds that have been out there for a while. You will have no clue. Go enjoy.:cheers:

If blinders are used the holes are easy to spot and don't go away. If they aren't used and planted as a large group I think like FC says, you wouldn't know the difference...probably. Oh, and FWP plants birds in Montana too. I don't know if I've ever shot one but I'd guess that I have. They do move around if they aren't puss guts like are planted out here.

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The way they are raised here is fine. I judge all over the US and it depends on each grower. The quality of birds is good nation wide for the most part. As far as survival, it is much greater here in the upper Midwest, where habitat is good, and there is wild birds already. I would say at least 50%. We use steel rings, not those plastic pins on blinders. You can not tell :thumbsup:.
 
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You guys are missing the non-genetic portion of the equation.

Wild birds have a wild momma keeping them in check and teaching them the ropes. Even then the percentage of hatchings that make opening day is estimated at 50% - 75%.
 
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