Acceptable Loss Rate

Elksniper said:
Lots of good points above, for sure the dogs ability (experience, training, genes, etc) has a lot to do with how well they will track down cripples. I can’t take credit for this because I heard it on a podcast, but I now carry a few reflectors and some flagging ribbon with me. If I don’t find the bird in my usual amount of searching, I mark the area where I think the bird went down with the flagging ribbon, go hunt for awhile, then circle back through the area later. That has worked for me a handful of times. I think letting the area clear of old scent and letting the scent of the cripple pool for a bit can help the dog if they’ve lost it. I have also learned that as long as the dog saw the bird fall and was close to it when it went down to just leave the dog alone after that. So many times I’m tempted to call the dog back thinking the clown is off looking for a new bird because he’s no where near where I think the bird went… and sure enough, here he comes with it.
Click to expand...
I agree. Myself, I try and stay out of the fall area for quite sometime while the dog works his magic. I don't want to add scent to the area.
 
westksbowhunter said:
I don't know about a good marking dog and I don't know about dogs struggling to be good markers. We are talking about birds shot at a distance of inside of 35 yds. If a dog can't mark a bird at that distance, maybe something was lacking in marking training.. We are not talking about 150 yd plus marks. You do have to have a dog that knows how to use its nose. And I disagree with getting on the scent quick too. For instance, 25 years ago I had a Tanks A Lot female that was terrific at flushing birds and trailing cripples. We had left her in the truck and let her rest walking one field. My dad shot a bird that we couldn't find. We got back to the truck drove around the section and took her into the fall area. Within a minute or so she had trailed that 30 minute old scent trail and found the bird. Another instance was about 6 years ago. I saw a guy on WIHA that was walking back and forth looking for a bird with his shorthairs. I got out and walked in to him and asked if he lost a bird and he said he had and was giving up. I told him to let me get his bird for him. My dog had in a couple of minutes. Much of it is how you train them, but for the most part, they either have it or they don't.
Click to expand...
I agree and I don’t to the portion about marking, yes most scenarios we are talking short marks unless it’s a winged bird that sails. But there is also a big difference between 150 yd HT/FT mark in short grass and a 30 yd mark on a crippled bird in a hunting field.
You can train a dog to mark well from a sit at any distance, you can’t teach a dog to mark well standing on its back legs in 3 ft tall grass. If the dog misses a mark by 15 ft in a HT/FT mark they will normally sight it or circle back and find it with ease. If they miss a mark by 15 ft in tall grass they may never get the scent.
On those other scenarios where your dogs picked up others birds, that’s always awesome. Were the birds still running or were they down. Asking a dog to run down a running pheasant from an older trail that could be a field over by that time and asking a dog to hunt dead for a downed bird thats close to the area of fall is also different.
Regardless I agree with you dogs either have it or they don’t!
 
agraham20 said:
I agree and I don’t to the portion about marking, yes most scenarios we are talking short marks unless it’s a winged bird that sails. But there is also a big difference between 150 yd HT/FT mark in short grass and a 30 yd mark on a crippled bird in a hunting field.
You can train a dog to mark well from a sit at any distance, you can’t teach a dog to mark well standing on its back legs in 3 ft tall grass. If the dog misses a mark by 15 ft in a HT/FT mark they will normally sight it or circle back and find it with ease. If they miss a mark by 15 ft in tall grass they may never get the scent.
On those other scenarios where your dogs picked up others birds, that’s always awesome. Were the birds still running or were they down. Asking a dog to run down a running pheasant from an older trail that could be a field over by that time and asking a dog to hunt dead for a downed bird thats close to the area of fall is also different.
Regardless I agree with you dogs either have it or they don’t!
Click to expand...
Well we don't have any 3 foot tall grass here to hunt.
 
westksbowhunter said:
I don't know about a good marking dog and I don't know about dogs struggling to be good markers. We are talking about birds shot at a distance of inside of 35 yds. If a dog can't mark a bird at that distance, maybe something was lacking in marking training.. We are not talking about 150 yd plus marks. You do have to have a dog that knows how to use its nose. And I disagree with getting on the scent quick too. For instance, 25 years ago I had a Tanks A Lot female that was terrific at flushing birds and trailing cripples. We had left her in the truck and let her rest walking one field. My dad shot a bird that we couldn't find. We got back to the truck drove around the section and took her into the fall area. Within a minute or so she had trailed that 30 minute old scent trail and found the bird. Another instance was about 6 years ago. I saw a guy on WIHA that was walking back and forth looking for a bird with his shorthairs. I got out and walked in to him and asked if he lost a bird and he said he had and was giving up. I told him to let me get his bird for him. My dog had in a couple of minutes. Much of it is how you train them, but for the most part, they either have it or they don't.
Click to expand...
Wow! having a Lottie pup 25 years ago put that breeding during the pinnacle of her career. That made you a 1% that were lucky enough to been selected for those few and exclusive breeding. There were many of us on the circuit that would have sold our kidney on the black market to be as lucky as yourself. What was your girls name?
 
Glock said:
Wow! having a Lottie pup 25 years ago put that breeding during the pinnacle of her career. That made you a 1% that were lucky enough to been selected for those few and exclusive breeding. There were many of us on the circuit that would have sold our kidney on the black market to be as lucky as yourself. What was your girls name?
Click to expand...
Lottie grand daughter. Her name was Lottie. Great dog. Bred her a couple of times. Had a nice litter bred to one of Bob Willetts males back when he was competitive on the circuit. When she got older I sold her to the Jagoda's.
 
remy3424 said:
We don't either. It was all 4-5' this year. So dry the grass didn't get very tall, except the Big Blue was 6'. Cover here really puts the dogs at a disadvantage compared to you that hunt those short grasses.
Click to expand...
Only time I’m lucky enough to hunt short grass is when I’m guiding on preserves or running in tournaments. Otherwise you’re in tall grass, or standing corn if you want birds around here.
 
remy3424 said:
We don't either. It was all 4-5' this year. So dry the grass didn't get very tall, except the Big Blue was 6'. Cover here really puts the dogs at a disadvantage compared to you that hunt those short grasses.
Click to expand...
Most of our CRP was in the 1 inch range, scalped to the ground. We just don't get much rain here. We have some CRP that gets over the dogs head but not much.
 
I’m pretty confident in my dog and his abilities, he will chew up 200yd marks all day in my training field but we had a crap shot on a bird in some 4 ft tall grass on public land this season. One of those shots you saw the bird just kind of flinch on the hit, it sailed 120yds and dropped like a rock. My dog made it most of the way but I had to handle him at the end to put him on the bird.
 
BrownDogsCan2 said:
You shoot one around here , they’ll run all the way to Iowa before they even look back🤣
Click to expand...
I lost one bird in Iowa last year. Tall grass, the dog pin pointed it but we just lost it. Hunted about an hour for that bird. Was using heavy bismuth upland 20 gauge through a light mod choke. I put my Improved Modified on the 20 last night for the remainder of the year. 5 Shot 1300 fps. Aim small miss small.
 
agraham20 said:
I’m pretty confident in my dog and his abilities, he will chew up 200yd marks all day in my training field but we had a crap shot on a bird in some 4 ft tall grass on public land this season. One of those shots you saw the bird just kind of flinch on the hit, it sailed 120yds and dropped like a rock. My dog made it most of the way but I had to handle him at the end to put him on the bird.
Click to expand...
Back to marking. Hunting tall grass where the dog doesn't see the fall, isn't really marking. That's hunting, and losing birds is part of. You need a dog that can trail, not mark.
 
westksbowhunter said:
Back to marking. Hunting tall grass where the dog doesn't see the fall, isn't really marking. That's hunting, and losing birds is part of. You need a dog that can trail, not mark.
Click to expand...
He marked that bird. He ran straight for the fall, but judging marked distances is tougher in taller grass hence why I had to handle him the last 20 yds. He wanted to stop short and hunt.
Trailing wouldn’t have been necessary on that bird as it dropped dead. If my dog didn’t handle then I would have had to walk over to the fall and help him find it.
I feel good marking dogs use all of their senses to mark falls. Sight, nose and hearing.
 
agraham20 said:
He marked that bird. He ran straight for the fall, but judging marked distances is tougher in taller grass hence why I had to handle him the last 20 yds. He wanted to stop short and hunt.
Trailing wouldn’t have been necessary on that bird as it dropped dead. If my dog didn’t handle then I would have had to walk over to the fall and help him find it.
I feel good marking dogs use all of their senses to mark falls. Sight, nose and hearing.
Click to expand...
I didn't mean in that scenario. Just that if a dog doesn't see the fall, it really isn't marking.
 
I shoot a bird, I don’t dare avert my eyes from the spot it went down and I run…run to the spot. Holdover from no dog days I reckon. Lots of time they’re there blinking eyes. Ring their necks and roll on.
 
Tomahawker said:
Holdover from no dog days
Click to expand...
That's a valid point no one has brought up yet. I assume everyone's comment here on acceptable cripple loss is hunting WITH a dog. Without a dog, I would accept a higher loss rate. And yes, there are a hunters without a dog. I used to be one of them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top