Acceptable Loss Rate

Jawilor

Jawilor

Active member
I'm curious what others consider an acceptable loss rate, and what you actually count as a lost bird. Obviously we don't want to lose any birds, but it happens. This season I lost 3 of 25 birds for a loss percentage of 12%. These are birds that were knocked down, marked, but the dogs couldn't find. The 3 birds I lost were all early season and we recovered the last 16 birds I shot mid to late season. I attribute this to my dogs mainly, especially my 2 year old Springer. She tracked and found several poorly hit birds in some thick cattails, some of which were 25-30 yards away from where they dropped. My lab also did great too, but I'm sure he wouldn't have a recovered a few of those runners.
I also switched to Boss 12ga 2 3/4" #4s mid-season and never lost a bird after switching. I'm not sure if that's a major factor, but I was impressed with the shells either way.
 
Jawilor said:
I'm curious what others consider an acceptable loss rate, and what you actually count as a lost bird. Obviously we don't want to lose any birds, but it happens. This season I lost 3 of 25 birds for a loss percentage of 12%. These are birds that were knocked down, marked, but the dogs couldn't find. The 3 birds I lost were all early season and we recovered the last 16 birds I shot mid to late season. I attribute this to my dogs mainly, especially my 2 year old Springer. She tracked and found several poorly hit birds in some thick cattails, some of which were 25-30 yards away from where they dropped. My lab also did great too, but I'm sure he wouldn't have a recovered a few of those runners.
I also switched to Boss 12ga 2 3/4" #4s mid-season and never lost a bird after switching. I'm not sure if that's a major factor, but I was impressed with the shells either way.
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Idk if there is technically an acceptable loss rate, I imagine it varies from hunter to hunter and the type of dogs they run or if they even have a dog. I would say you did well. Losing an occasional bird is inevitable and happens to everyone now and then. Some dogs are better at picking up cripples than others, and some guys are better shots and or take less risky shots.
My male lab is an exception when it comes to picking up runners and cripples. We went 30/27 this season, and have only lost 1 bird in the last 3 seasons avg around 30 birds a season.
 
I seem to get better every year at recovering birds. I honestly believe that after having my best season ever, the determining factor this year was shooting better. As in very few cripples. My dog does pretty good but she doesn't find them all if they have they're landing gear down when they light. As much as I hate it, it is part of it. But this year I concentrated on getting out in front with more lead than in years past and it really paid off with birds that went nowhere when they dropped. The only 2 birds we didn't recover this year were VERY alive when they hit the ground.
 
I was lucky. Had a phenomenal dog on cripples. Lost very, very, few. Not always but depending on how I had been doing, a lost crippled bird was counted as part of bag limit.
 
This past Sunday my group of 3 killed 3 pheasants and 5 quail. We had zero losses. It helped that two of the roosters were dead when they hit the ground, but one was a runner for sure. 3 of the quail were runners. That was an extraordinarily good day. I think my overall rate this season is probably closer to 20%, which I think is too high. I've had seasons that were around 10% or lower. Good dog work is absolutely the difference.

The dog I lost two years ago was really good at this. The two I have now are still learning, I hope. I need to spend a little time training for it, but I'm not really sure how to do that, other than buy pheasants, pull the primariess, let them go, and then turn a dog loose. The standard NAVHDA dead bird drag isn't that challenging for them, but maybe I should start there.
 
We are hunting a wild animal whose will to survive starts the second they hatch from the egg on the prairie. They fight through heat, rain, cold, snow and wind, and predators. It isn't a shock that an injury that doesn't kill them will allow them to get away and, in some cases, live to fight another day. While there isn't an acceptable or desired rate above zero, we do have to acknowledge it has and will happen.

Sage and I have lost two roosters that I knocked down this year. I put both of them in my videos because I think it's important to be honest, as well as analyze what I did wrong and how to improve on that in the future. And the number of birds lost each season has decreased a lot as I get older. I try to avoid Hail Mary shots, I try to avoid taking shots over muddy cattails in the early season and have switched to BOSS shells. And it seems that the majority of pheasants I have lost over the years are from the early/mid part of the season. Once we get snow and the habitat shrinks, tracking becomes much easier for the dogs. And I think there is something to be said about the dog being in better shape as the season progresses, as well.

The percentage always seems high, but the biggest thing about losing birds is that we do our very best to recover them and know that you can't get them all. Except that one anonymous guy on the internet whose never hunted wild pheasants, but goes to a "super realistic preserve" in California. He's never lost a bird because he trains his dogs. ;)
 
I lost one rooster this season. It was the first one I had lost since 2019.

On average, I lose 1 or 2 during the course of the season and harvest anywhere between 10-25 roosters. I generally hunt alone.

The one I lost this year was a complete mystery. I dumped it on a completely open field after it flushed from waist high grass. I saw it fold up. I got to the edge of the field within 10 seconds and it was nowhere to be found. The dog never really picked up on scent either. Really a head scratcher.

Dry, parched landscapes are not good for bird scent. That has probably played a role the past couple seasons now in certain parts of upland bird country.
 
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Matto, I have always used the wing clipped rooster on my started dogs. Change up cover and time between release and sending your dog. A lively rooster and a ten minute head start will challenge most young dogs, but they will learn on every bird. Our group tries to end the season with more found cripples (not ours) than lost (ours) and that is our standard. Many lost cripples can be attributed to the adjoining cover, unpicked wheat vs. a clean pasture. Shoot to kill.
 
I lose more than I care to admit, mostly in our crp, which I hunted more this year than ever. For me, I don't think it is so much the dogs (my current dog is young but I usually have a seasoned dog along also), but the cover, the amount of birds in the cover plus my shooting abilities. We will still lose a bird when there are have several dogs. Runners in my cover has become very difficult for dogs to track. Just a few years ago, I would be part of retrieves that had stretched over 100 yards, now it seems if they aren't recovered within 25 yards of where they fell, we likely aren't recovering that bird. When there were many fewer birds, it was much easier for the dogs recovering winged birds and locating singles. If I had Sage with me, we might do a bit better, in the last video with cattails and snow, that first one I was just assuming it would not be recovered, but here she comes with it!
 
My 7 year old Lab has trailed many many many times more than I can remember, a bird 100-200 yards through cover and get to an edge and flush it. She can absolutely trail a bird and you can see her out of her mind sniffing every piece of grass that bird touched while running.
But knock one down and it runs? Completely different. It's maddening to me. I've discussed it in nauseum with tons of hunters/dog owners and the best thing I've come up with is that a bird that hasn't flushed flown, running, is depositing a lot more scent on the cover it passes by than a bird that took wing and flapped its wings up into a brisk wind and washed/blown a lot of warm fresh sent off of it? That makes sense to me. But no other explanation does. She has found sometimes 5-10 birds right where 3-4 other dogs passed thru moments ago. But if I drop a lively bird? I'd say she brings back about 60% of them. I've also hunted with another dog from her litter who doesn't flush a fraction of the birds mine does but is about 95% on cripples.
 
We lost two birds this year. But my dogs did pick up three other birds other hunters lost or couldn’t find. All five birds were early season in which was dry (poor scenting) as well as heavy vegetation.
 
My opinion a good cripple dog has to be fast and in shape, have an excellent nose, be a good marker and have confidence.
I’ve seen out of shape slower dogs just get outrun by a wounded bird. My first ever lab I had when I was younger was an excellent flushing dog. But was a horrible marker, and if they can’t get on the site of the drop fast enough the bird is as good as gone,
especially early season.
Some guys have pointers that don’t retrieve as well, and if your dog doesn’t retrieve your never getting that cripple.
 
So this past October in SD I thought my older dog was going to pull off a miracle. She's 5 now. Anyway, it was a typical runner. The kind where as the bird is falling you think "oh sh!t". My friend shot the bird and we headed that way with the dog. She picked up the scent and I let her trail it. We were probably 200 yards from the south edge of a full quarter of CRP. She headed north; my friend and I followed. She was wearing a Garmin. I checked the handheld repeatedly because she was out of sight to whole time. She was always north of us, give or take. She was always probably 90-115 yards away. We were walking relatively fast, faster than when a normal hunting pace, but much slower than her normal working pace. I've never seen her move on a line so straight and so slow (for her). I thought for sure she would come up with the bird, but she didn't. I think the bird hit the north edge of the field, which was the road, and took off again. Either that or she lost the trail. My best guess is she trailed that bird for 500+ yards and didn't come up with it.

Also, I think HS Strut's comments about birds getting "airwashed" are spot on.
 
One of my dogs totally loses her mind on running birds, shot or not. And if she doesn't see it fall she thinks it's her mission to cover as much of the field as possible. A lot of the time she outruns her nose.
I always try to let the dog do the searching and stop short of the bird at the dogs quartering distance. With that one its tough. Depending on the year she probably loses 5-15 percent. The other dogs pretty good at picking up the ones the speed dog overuns,
 
I count any rooster that FALLS from the sky as a result of my shot, but doesn't end up in my vest, as a lost bird. Sometimes a somewhat wounded rooster might make a controlled landing at some distance, & we might be able to go see if we can find him again, to either be recovered on the ground or flushed & shot again. We most commonly never see those birds again (I believe most will heal & live mostly normal lives), but either way, if he doesn't end up in the vest, that kind does NOT count as a lost bird. He simply won.

Obviously, sometimes I lose a pheasant. But in almost all cases, the REASON I lose one is because I screwed up somehow. Therefore, it's a direct reflection of my shooting, decision making, or something, & it's never acceptable. We go to great lengths to try to recover every wounded/dead rooster, & I absolutely HATE losing one. It makes me feel miserable.

I've read in the past that the "average experienced pheasant dog" loses 12%-17% of shot birds. I have a hard time calling that acceptable or reasonable. But I can see it for the "average", because that person really doesn't hunt a lot, he consequently doesn't GET as many high percentage shots, ISN'T a great pheasant shooter, & his "average experienced pheasant dog" really isn't terribly experienced. I've studied how to find & hunt pheasants my whole life. I usually hunt 30-35 times a year, in areas where good numbers of pheasants live, & I can put my puppies on them from day 1. As a result, I consider myself very experienced, & my dogs become very experienced quicker than most. That experience level only increases with time. We don't lose 12%-17%. Most years it's probably in the 2%-5% range.

One thing I've noticed with my current dog Ace is that, while he makes amazing recoveries occasionally, he's not quite as accomplished at finding/recovering runners as my other 2 springers were. I attribute it to this (which may sound a bit pompous). I've become a considerably better shot in the last 20 years, particularly in the past 10 or so. A fairly high percentage of roosters I shoot hit the ground & stay pretty much where they fell. I believe this has made Ace more prone to try to SEE a "dead" bird, particularly right when he reaches the drop zone, rather than immediately turn on his nose & use it. This gives a runner a head start that can result in a lost bird. My first 2 dogs hunted with me while I was a less accomplished shot. They were having to find runners WAY more often than Ace does, & I think that experience made them better at it. That said, Ace is still only in his 4th season, does very, very well, & I suspect will only improve in the next few seasons. He's not perfect, but at this point, without him, I don't hunt pheasants.
 
HS Strut said:
My 7 year old Lab has trailed many many many times more than I can remember, a bird 100-200 yards through cover and get to an edge and flush it. She can absolutely trail a bird and you can see her out of her mind sniffing every piece of grass that bird touched while running.
But knock one down and it runs? Completely different. It's maddening to me. I've discussed it in nauseum with tons of hunters/dog owners and the best thing I've come up with is that a bird that hasn't flushed flown, running, is depositing a lot more scent on the cover it passes by than a bird that took wing and flapped its wings up into a brisk wind and washed/blown a lot of warm fresh sent off of it? That makes sense to me. But no other explanation does. She has found sometimes 5-10 birds right where 3-4 other dogs passed thru moments ago. But if I drop a lively bird? I'd say she brings back about 60% of them. I've also hunted with another dog from her litter who doesn't flush a fraction of the birds mine does but is about 95% on cripples.
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I’m not sure how much I believe in this “air wash “ theory. Birds are constantly leaving scent, no matter if they are dead or alive. A bird flying through the air is no different than wind blowing a birds scent cone downwind in my opinion.
Your statement about the dog losing its mind would make more sense to me. With retrievers the end reward is picking up that fresh retrieve, so that will get the most excitement out of them. Your dog gets so worked up thinking it’s gonna get the retrieve that the over excitement causes mistakes in either not staying on trail or trouble finding it. Maybe overrunning it or missing where it turns.
Hunting conditions will always affect how long scent lingers on surfaces and in the air. Dogs are like humans in regards to some are better at certain skills than others. Some of it comes through breeding and some through training. Some dogs are born with more sensitive noses, and some dogs are born with better marking skills, so many factors go into every hunt and retrieve. I’ve seen dogs that were really good at hunting scent cones down wind but couldn’t run a trail to save their life. Every once in awhile you get a superstar that just does everything well. But for the most part it’s our jobs as hunters to identify our dogs strong points and put them in the best chance to succeed.
Working on trailing drills in the off-season would benefit you. But replicating a fresh shot running bird is a very tough scenario to train for.
 
My male dog we put down 3.5 years ago was unbelievably good, especially on cripples. I watched him track one on a dead run 1/2 mile through a corn field and disappeared into a bunch of cattails and came out with the bird. There were years where I would should 50-75 birds myself and might loose one or two the entire year, many years we lost none. But my current dog is 2.5 years old and just isn't as good on cripples, at least yet. I have lost 4 birds this year. However he has ran down a couple that I would have definitely lost without him. I am hoping he gets better, but he is just to fast and doesn't slow down and looses the scent trail. I am looking to get 2 female field cockers to help out. I just don't shoot 50-75 birds a year anymore. I hope to get 20 this year. It is terrible here.
 
agraham20 said:
My opinion a good cripple dog has to be fast and in shape, have an excellent nose, be a good marker and have confidence.
I’ve seen out of shape slower dogs just get outrun by a wounded bird. My first ever lab I had when I was younger was an excellent flushing dog. But was a horrible marker, and if they can’t get on the site of the drop fast enough the bird is as good as gone,
especially early season.
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Lots of truth to this. Most dogs struggle to be good markers and to quickly get themselves to the area of fall. Most dogs will start hunting well short of the area of fall. By the time they get into the correct area and get into the scent come, the bird has regain its sense and is deep into its escape.
 
Glock said:
Lots of truth to this. Most dogs struggle to be good markers and to quickly get themselves to the area of fall. Most dogs will start hunting well short of the area of fall. By the time they get into the correct area and get into the scent come, the bird has regain its sense and is deep into its escape.
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I don't know about a good marking dog and I don't know about dogs struggling to be good markers. We are talking about birds shot at a distance of inside of 35 yds. If a dog can't mark a bird at that distance, maybe something was lacking in marking training.. We are not talking about 150 yd plus marks. You do have to have a dog that knows how to use its nose. And I disagree with getting on the scent quick too. For instance, 25 years ago I had a Tanks A Lot female that was terrific at flushing birds and trailing cripples. We had left her in the truck and let her rest walking one field. My dad shot a bird that we couldn't find. We got back to the truck drove around the section and took her into the fall area. Within a minute or so she had trailed that 30 minute old scent trail and found the bird. Another instance was about 6 years ago. I saw a guy on WIHA that was walking back and forth looking for a bird with his shorthairs. I got out and walked in to him and asked if he lost a bird and he said he had and was giving up. I told him to let me get his bird for him. My dog had in a couple of minutes. Much of it is how you train them, but for the most part, they either have it or they don't.
 
Lots of good points above, for sure the dogs ability (experience, training, genes, etc) has a lot to do with how well they will track down cripples. I can’t take credit for this because I heard it on a podcast, but I now carry a few reflectors and some flagging ribbon with me. If I don’t find the bird in my usual amount of searching, I mark the area where I think the bird went down with the flagging ribbon, go hunt for awhile, then circle back through the area later. That has worked for me a handful of times. I think letting the area clear of old scent and letting the scent of the cripple pool for a bit can help the dog if they’ve lost it. I have also learned that as long as the dog saw the bird fall and was close to it when it went down to just leave the dog alone after that. So many times I’m tempted to call the dog back thinking the clown is off looking for a new bird because he’s no where near where I think the bird went… and sure enough, here he comes with it.
 
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