A Labrador Retriever Struggling Retrieving Birds (video) - Advice Appreciated

[goldenboy]

Watch the video and listen to yourself. Way to many commands. If a dog is Force fetched or Collar conditioned whatever term you want to use the dog should pick up that bird. From watching the video I can assume a few things. 1. The yard work of force to pile was not completed. That is not about retrieving but about obedience. 2. I don't think your trainer used birds in their daily regimen. A hot freshly shot rooster is a different thing to retrieve than a standard dummy. Shooting live fliers over your dog as a part of the training will help if they have been FF or CC. My suggestion like many others here on the site is to take a step back in your training. Not all dogs progress at the same level some dogs take longer to complete the FF or CC. If you put her down with your other retriever in the field she will let the other dog do all the retrieving.

By the way, you are a good shot! That is huge for young dogs. If you don't kill the bird the training session gets confusing! Keep us posted on what you do to help her out.

 

[walk213]

You’re not going to like what I have to say, and I will come off more harshly than is intended. I only watched the first couple minutes before I had to turn it off. Obviously you were nervous and frustrated, take a deep breath and a step back.
You said every command known to man to that dog and she understands none of them. Train the poor dog so she has the opportunity for success. Stop hunting her, solidify obedience, and FF her (note I didn’t say use some FF techniques). Than quit saying whoa whoa whoa, fetch fetch it up, good dog, get it, fetch, etc. Give a command, and expect a response. If you don’t get the response you need to train more.
PS when Rick Stawski or ((Stoney Burke) a couple of you might get this reference) says sit twice he is bracketing a E collar correction. This very standard and accepted training procedure going all the way back to Rex Carr. IE “sit” (collar nick) “sit”.

I appreciate the advice, and I am sure I will eventually become a better dog handler.

 

[walk213]

Watch the video and listen to yourself. Way to many commands. If a dog is Force fetched or Collar conditioned whatever term you want to use the dog should pick up that bird. From watching the video I can assume a few things. 1. The yard work of force to pile was not completed. That is not about retrieving but about obedience. 2. I don't think your trainer used birds in their daily regimen. A hot freshly shot rooster is a different thing to retrieve than a standard dummy. Shooting live fliers over your dog as a part of the training will help if they have been FF or CC. My suggestion like many others here on the site is to take a step back in your training. Not all dogs progress at the same level some dogs take longer to complete the FF or CC. If you put her down with your other retriever in the field she will let the other dog do all the retrieving.

By the way, you are a good shot! That is huge for young dogs. If you don't kill the bird the training session gets confusing! Keep us posted on what you do to help her out.

I appreciate your critique without the sarcasm, insults and pompous attitude. I am not a dog trainer. I didn't start hunting birds until I was 41 (52 now). I had to learn to hunt on my own. I make no excuses for my failures, but I try really hard to get better. I have shot well over 150 wild pheasants/quail over Echo in 4 seasons. Echo and I bonded quickly and she seemed to have her commands perfected early. My wife and I think that all of your comments are accurate. We will restart the process with another trainer. I cannot watch a video and hope to get it right. Josey deserves my best effort and that means I need guidance.

 

[Labs]

Hey Walk, just wanted to say that the above isn't meant to be critical. Every trainer here of every experience level started out where you are now. It can seem like long uphill grind, but if I, who has no patience to spare, can learn to be a fair to middlin' gundog trainer back in my 40s, then anyone can. That you had the courage to ask for advice and post a video of your dog's and your issues shows me you have what it takes.

I'll offer some advice, you can take it or leave as you choose. A couple decades back when I decided I needed a trained lab, I did much as you just did but on a waterfowling forum as I was primarily a waterfowl hunter. The moderator, a pro trainer, took me under his wing, so to speak, and mentored & encouraged me as I raised and trained my first pup from 7 weeks old. Josie (Jacie's Dakota Gold) turned out to the best lab I've trained from pup to Finished, although the current leader of the Wrecking Crew, Harley (Northern Prairie's X Marks The Spot) is a very, very close second.

Along the way, I learned how to be a trainer. As a trainer, it was my responsibility to be patient & clear in my expectations of my dog. I had to bridge the communication gap between us. I learned that rock solid OB is the foundation of all training, and if Josie had an issue with a task, to go back and re-visit the closest corresponding OB. I learned to take as long as needed to teach a task, and not move to the next until Josie clearly understood the current one. I learned not to overburden my dog, training just two 10 minute sessions a day. As Josie matured I gradually increased to two 20 minutes sessions a day at about 12 months. I learned to praise her up when she did well and correct gently when she did not. I learned if I was having a bad day to pass on training as I would translate that frustration, and if Josie was having a bad day, to simplify to a task she had down and end on a positive note, with praise.

I made more than my share of rookie mistakes out of ignorance, but fortunately labs are one of if not the most forgiving and trainable breeds of gundogs. Josie had ample opportunity to quit on me, but she never did.

I can recommend a couple books that I use as the foundation of my program to this day. Those are 10 Minute Retriever by John & Amy Dahl (takes you nicely from 7 weeks up to about 6 months) and Evan Graham's Smartwork and Smartfetch, which will take you from intermediate to finished.

Your young lab is birdy, and that's a good part of the battle. It's up to you to help her achieve her potential. I'm sure the guys here will help you, I know I will, although I'm nowhere as knowledgeable as guys like Irish Whistler.

 

[walk213]

Hey Labs,

I am not offended by any of the criticisms of me. Some contributors to my post felt it necessary to denigrate me. Perhaps that makes them feel better about themselves.

Your story hits home. I thought that I was ok with gun dogs because Echo and I are in sync in the field. I was surprised to watch Josey come back from training without the ability to fetch.

Your demeanor with your Josie is where I need to be with my Josey. Patient and encouraging. I need to connect with an expert before employing techniques learned from a video or book. I don't want to dig a deeper hole for us.

I do appreciate the insight and I am not offended by the comments levied at me.

 

[IRISHWHISTLER]

Concur 100% with Irish Whistler and Gatzby....

Good on ye Mate.

Slainte,
Mike

 

[westksbowhunter]

Hey Labs,

I am not offended by any of the criticisms of me. Some contributors to my post felt it necessary to denigrate me. Perhaps that makes them feel better about themselves.

Your story hits home. I thought that I was ok with gun dogs because Echo and I are in sync in the field. I was surprised to watch Josey come back from training without the ability to fetch.

Your demeanor with your Josie is where I need to be with my Josey. Patient and encouraging. I need to connect with an expert before employing techniques learned from a video or book. I don't want to dig a deeper hole for us.

I do appreciate the insight and I am not offended by the comments levied at me.

You received some very good advice on this forum. I read all the posts and no one made any comments that "Denigrated" you. Sometime we feel that way when we read or hear what we don't want to hear. I know when I started training, I felt I could easily train my first dog. And I thought he was pretty good til I met a a fellow who had a MH titled dog and then I felt embarrassed. It was no fault of the dog as he was out of Candlewood's Nifty Nick. I disagree that you need to seek an expert. While that is a good path, you can easily use the DVD's and Lardy manuals to adequately train a dog on your on. However, joining a training club is a great way to gain knowledge. Most pro's who charge $800 a month for training are not going to give out advice for free.

 

[KS GSP]

I would have to agree with westbow in that I don't see where anyone was putting you down. Unfortunately there's no way to convey tone in a post and it's very easy to give a post a tone that wasn't intended. I believe anyone who posted a reply is only trying to help you but it is shocking to see that video after reading the dog had formal training including FF. It's unfortunate that you took some responses negatively as I think there is a lot of good advice here.

Best of luck.

 

[Labs]

Concur with WestKsBH, if you can join a training club, sometimes referred to as Retriever Clubs, I would advise to do so. They can be a great resource, just be aware some join them as sort of a schwartz contest based on their dog's ability & titles, not to learn and help their dogs get better. Also joining one doesn't mean you have to get into tests (what I refer to as "dog games") and titles. You may want to go there eventually, but I wouldn't worry about it for now...

 

[Gatzby]

Hey Labs,

I am not offended by any of the criticisms of me. Some contributors to my post felt it necessary to denigrate me. Perhaps that makes them feel better about themselves.

Your story hits home. I thought that I was ok with gun dogs because Echo and I are in sync in the field. I was surprised to watch Josey come back from training without the ability to fetch.

Your demeanor with your Josie is where I need to be with my Josey. Patient and encouraging. I need to connect with an expert before employing techniques learned from a video or book. I don't want to dig a deeper hole for us.

I do appreciate the insight and I am not offended by the comments levied at me.

You came to a public forum soliciting advice, much of the advice you probably didn't enjoy reading but that doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate or intended to be insulting. Lets face it most of us are dog people and not wordsmiths.
Remember simple fixes don’t exist in the dog world, and 9 out of 10 times issues come back to a lack of obedience and until you look in the mirror you will not be able to correct these issues. Remember a dog is neither disobedient or bull headed if what you want is not clearly defined.

If you are from Central Minnesota area I invite you to come out and train with myself and friends. All I ask is you give our advice fair consideration.

 

[jonnyB]

You came to a public forum soliciting advice, much of the advice you probably didn't enjoy reading but that doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate or intended to be insulting. Lets face it most of us are dog people and not wordsmiths.
Remember simple fixes don’t exist in the dog world, and 9 out of 10 times issues come back to a lack of obedience and until you look in the mirror you will not be able to correct these issues. Remember a dog is neither disobedient or bull headed if what you want is not clearly defined.

If you are from Central Minnesota area I invite you to come out and train with myself and friends. All I ask is you give our advice fair consideration.

I believe he lives in Parker, CO.

 

[walk213]

I believe he lives in Parker, CO.

I appreciate the in

You came to a public forum soliciting advice, much of the advice you probably didn't enjoy reading but that doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate or intended to be insulting. Lets face it most of us are dog people and not wordsmiths.
Remember simple fixes don’t exist in the dog world, and 9 out of 10 times issues come back to a lack of obedience and until you look in the mirror you will not be able to correct these issues. Remember a dog is neither disobedient or bull headed if what you want is not clearly defined.

If you are from Central Minnesota area I invite you to come out and train with myself and friends. All I ask is you give our advice fair consideration.

I appreciate the invite. That is kind of you. Unfortunately, I live in Parker, Colorado.

I have thanked every person that offered guidance to me. I appreciate the professional insight provided as I am not a gun dog trainer. There has been nasty comments posted about me on multiple forums where I asked for help. I am not whining about it, but it is a fact. I never responded angrily. I took the positive out of what they said and moved on

I have gathered most of the insights offered and shared them with my family. I am going to be a better handler, and Josey will eventually become a kick ass gun dog like her aunt, Echo.