1330 fps

Labradinger

Labradinger

Well-known member
Seems like almost every manufacturer has a cheaper shell considered their “high brass” if you will. Seems like they probably all follow the same recipe. Has anyone bought a box of each brand and tested them against each other on paper?
 
Get a pallet and a big piece of cardboard and go out and shoot some. I got a 100 pack of nra shotgun targets from target barn shipping was more than the targets but still I think it was about the price of a couple of rolls of red rosin paper. Precut and ready to go.
Was kind of fun. Take the dogs with you and make a day of it.
 
I was ordering shells the other day, sifting through fps, brands, lead v non-tox, etc.... and began chuckling to myself of how difficult I've let it become. I got by just fine on the 4 pack of 7 1/2 target loads from Walmart for years in my late teens and twenties because I wasn't trading beer and fun money for high brass. Killed a ton of birds in that period and never thought twice about what I put in that gun. Forward 20 years and the case of shells I finally decided on would have bought a hell of a lot if keystone light
 
I have tested the cheap shells. They are all pretty much the same with the Winchesters slightly better (in the gun I used). Back when I quail hunted with a 12 gauge, the cheap light loads were all I used. I never noticed any difference. As I evolved, I found that the smaller the gauge the more important quality shells became.
 
I spent a few hours on a project like that last month. I've decided to get out of reloading hunting ammunition, so I wanted to invest a little time to find a load that patterned well out of my gun. I had 8 different rounds to test, ranging from Winchester Super Pheasant at $35/box to a few economy offerings from Federal, Winchester, and Fiocchi. Varying shot sizes as shown below. Below is a summary of the data. The yellow highlighted lines are the "lower end" offerings that were in the mix. All were shot at about 33 yards through a full choke. Range time was less than half of total time. Counting pellet holes in kraft paper is pretty monotonous, and frankly a little less objective than I expected. Cutting open shells and estimating pellet count is also pretty monotonous.

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Federal Blue Box surprised me. If I can find that shell in a 7.5, that will probably be my quail load. Variance in pellet size/count from "nominal" was also pretty surprising. The estimated counts for Win Super Pheasant and Bioammo were both 10% over nominal, ie, smaller shot. Both Fiocchi loads had estimated counted lower than nominal, ie, larger shot. Both Federal loads estimated essentially equal to nominal.

I'd like to find a Kent 1.375 load for testing. And also a Fiocchi 1.375 in #6. The thing about the Kent loads is that the 1.25 oz load claims 1345fps for velocity, but when you step up to 1.375, they step up the claimed velocity to 1475. I wonder what the commensurate increase in pressure will do to patterns.
 
GetTothePoint said:
I was ordering shells the other day, sifting through fps, brands, lead v non-tox, etc.... and began chuckling to myself of how difficult I've let it become. I got by just fine on the 4 pack of 7 1/2 target loads from Walmart for years in my late teens and twenties because I wasn't trading beer and fun money for high brass. Killed a ton of birds in that period and never thought twice about what I put in that gun. Forward 20 years and the case of shells I finally decided on would have bought a hell of a lot if keystone light
Click to expand...
I was just the opposite, I never paid any attention to what i put in my 12 or 20 and I went pheasant hunting a lot and hit and lost many birds. I would doubt that I even had any idea what size I was using on any given day.
Move forward 35 or so years and it's a new era, I always pattern and shoot faster shells for both 20 and 12 and even go so far as to switch up mid season and my kill ratio has at the very least doubled.
Not trying to start any argument just putting my personal experiences out there.....
 
I had a friend that never cared what he shot. He was a natural shot but wounded and lost a bunch of roosters but back then there were a bunch around and if he lost one there was always another just down the field.
I hated losing roosters and I shot a 20 so I bought the best I could afford. I paid $7-8 per box, he was paying $4-5 but I found twice as many roosters shot as he did. My favorites back then were Winchester Super X and the red box Federal Hi Power. Ammo has always been the cheapest part of the hunt!
 
Here's some patterning I did on lead pheasant loads that may shed some light on this topic.

Are you really getting any benefits from the more expensive “Premium” or “Super” pheasant loads on the market?

Well, let’s see what the pattern board can tell us about some of these loads and how they perform in my gun and chokes.

Patterning results from a 12-gauge Browning Citori with 28" Invector-plus barrels using Briley flush chokes (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot inscribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

12 GA 2 3/4" FEDERAL GAME-SHOK HEAVY FIELD LOAD
1 ¼ oz #5 lead (224 pellets) @ 1220 fps
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 173 (77%)
40 YARDS – Mod / pattern 145 (65%)
50 YARDS – Full / pattern 109 (49%)

12 GA 2 3/4" FEDERAL PREMIUM UPLAND HIGH-VELOCITY LOAD
1 ¼ oz #5 lead (216 pellets) @ 1400 fps
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 152 (70%)
40 YARDS – Mod / pattern 126 (58%)
50 YARDS – Full / pattern 84 (39%)

12 GA 2 3/4" WINCHESTER SUPER PHEASANT LOAD
1 3/8 oz #5 lead (234 pellets) @ 1300 fps
30 YARDS – IC / pattern 186 (79%)
40 YARDS – Mod / pattern 149 (64%)
50 YARDS – Full / pattern 113 (48%)

It’s obvious from the pattern numbers that the Game-Shok load shot tighter patterns (IC / +7%, Mod / +7%, and Full / +10%) than the Premium Upland high-velocity load with the chokes tested.

Now, the Winchester Super Pheasant 1 3/8-ounce load started out with 10 more pellets than the 1 ¼-ounce Game-Shok load; and it did put a few more pellets (IC / +13 pellets, Mod / +4 pellets, and Full / +4 pellets) in the patterns than the Game-Shok load. The question you have to ask yourself is… are those few extra pellets in the 30-, 40- and 50-yard patterns really providing any noticeable benefit to killin’ pheasants?

It’s clear to me that you could save some money and reduce recoil by shooting the relatively slow 1220 fps load and not really forgo any pheasant killin’ effectiveness. Heck, the slower Game -Shok load put 24 more pellets (a 29% increase) in the 50-yard pattern than the Premium Upland load and had only 4 fewer pellets than the heavier Winchester Super Pheasant load. Just because they are labeled “Premium” or “Super” loads, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are “better” at killin’ pheasants!

That’s my take, now you can be the judge!
 
I wasnt so curious about the cheaper shells being as good as the more expensive ones. I just have noticed that everyone seems to have a shell rated at 1330 fps 1 1/4 oz load of 12 gauge. Im not a reloader, but with all things identical on the box, im curious if they all follow virtually an identical work up for the load, and therefor they will all pattern the same. So if a guy patterned a winchester super x at 1330, would the federal/herters/remington equivalent pattern virtually identically. These shells are usually around 15/box and unplated lead.
 
My data suggests that the answer is "no". Fiocchi Field Dynamics, Federal Hi Bird and Winchester Super X are all 1.25oz, 1330 fps loads. Fiocchi patterned best out of my gun at almost 83%. Federal was worst at 72.6%. Whether 72.6% is good enough is up to each of us as an individual. Interestingly, the Federal load I refer to as "blue box" was better than all of them at 84.7%. It was a 1.25oz, 1220fps load. Shot sizes weren't the same, which might be a factor.

Cut open some shells and you'll see that the wads are different. These are the wads from the shells I tested. They match up left-to-right in the picture with top-to-bottom in the data. The federal wads, on the left, are both two piece wads. They are different wads and the shells patterned differently. Fiocchi field dynamics and Kent Ultimate Fast Lead shared the same wad and and both patterned well.
 

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I applaud the earnest souls who have the time and inclination to do the testing described above--it's really what a diligent hunter should do and the above-described results are interesting. All of that said, I haven't used a 12 gauge on pheasants since about 2013. I have one main criteria for shell selection: am I hitting birds with the shells I'm using, and are the birds dropping dead? I've mostly used my 16 gauges since 2013, and the shells they like are the Remington Express 1 1/8 ounce #5's and #6's and, since about 2020, the Boss #5's and #6's. My theory is, if they work, I'm sticking with them.
 
As my years (and guns) have matured, I have become a huge fan of the 1oz loads of #6 in both 12b and 16b. In the 12b it is primarily the 2.5" load from RST. The pheasants have not noticed they are being whacked by a 1oz load vs something heavier.
 
matto said:
I spent a few hours on a project like that last month. I've decided to get out of reloading hunting ammunition, so I wanted to invest a little time to find a load that patterned well out of my gun. I had 8 different rounds to test, ranging from Winchester Super Pheasant at $35/box to a few economy offerings from Federal, Winchester, and Fiocchi. Varying shot sizes as shown below. Below is a summary of the data. The yellow highlighted lines are the "lower end" offerings that were in the mix. All were shot at about 33 yards through a full choke. Range time was less than half of total time. Counting pellet holes in kraft paper is pretty monotonous, and frankly a little less objective than I expected. Cutting open shells and estimating pellet count is also pretty monotonous.

View attachment 10914

Federal Blue Box surprised me. If I can find that shell in a 7.5, that will probably be my quail load. Variance in pellet size/count from "nominal" was also pretty surprising. The estimated counts for Win Super Pheasant and Bioammo were both 10% over nominal, ie, smaller shot. Both Fiocchi loads had estimated counted lower than nominal, ie, larger shot. Both Federal loads estimated essentially equal to nominal.

I'd like to find a Kent 1.375 load for testing. And also a Fiocchi 1.375 in #6. The thing about the Kent loads is that the 1.25 oz load claims 1345fps for velocity, but when you step up to 1.375, they step up the claimed velocity to 1475. I wonder what the commensurate increase in pressure will do to patterns.
Click to expand...
A friend gave me 4 boxes of the "Federal Blue Box" in 1 oz #7.5, 28ga a couple of years ago. I have no idea where he found them but I use them for desert quail and they are lethal. If I could find them in #6 I'd buy a case in a heartbeat. Entirely subjective, but my experience is that they far outperform Fio and Winchester, though both of those are "good", the Federals are better.
 
When you refer to the Federal “blue box” are you referring to these?
1743599402665.jpeg
Or are you referring to these?
1743599482338.jpeg
Federal has changed their packaging over the years and I haven’t kept up with the difference.
 
I just received several boxes I ordered to go with what I have. An additional 3 loads Ive never put on paper. Ill admit, Im not nearly as technical as many of the guys on here. I have 48 by 48 paper ill shoot at 40 yards. I then just look at it. Pass or fail. And I keep them to reference later. So far, in the guns Ive shot, everything passes in my book for consistently hitting birds except for Prairie Storm. I’ll keep messing with them in a couple different guns but out of my main gun and 2 different chokes, these were horrific. The rest are out of two guns and were Scheels pheasant Maxx, Kent Fastlead (the slower of the 2), Winchester Super Pheasant, and Fiocchi Golden Pheasant (determined to be the best by looking at it). Ive also shot Kent Upland Bismith. All were 5’s. Some are a little better than others, but I only shoot one shell each gun/brand of ammo.
I’ll add a standard Federal high Brass (Runnings specific brand), Remington Express, Winchester High Brass, and some cheap 2 3/4 1.5 ounce Winchester turkey loads. I also bought some 3 inch Winchester Bismuth 4’s. Everything else is 5 shot. Ill report back with how those do.
In the end, there is little chance that we all center up the bird more often than not, so I think some guys get too nit-picky. I just dont want any huge gaps in my patterns and I feel more confident. My hats off to those who can put the time and money and patience into the finer points of patterning, its just not for me.
 
airmedic1 said:
I had a friend that never cared what he shot. He was a natural shot but wounded and lost a bunch of roosters but back then there were a bunch around and if he lost one there was always another just down the field.
I hated losing roosters and I shot a 20 so I bought the best I could afford. I paid $7-8 per box, he was paying $4-5 but I found twice as many roosters shot as he did. My favorites back then were Winchester Super X and the red box Federal Hi Power. Ammo has always been the cheapest part of the hunt!
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I am kind of shocked by the number of low-brass empties I come across while hunting.

When I see my dog put all she has into a hunt there is no way I could look her in the eye and tell her that I went cheap on shotgun shells.
 
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