Slowing the dog on a running rooster

westksbowhunter said:
Actually FC Springer and myself have provided lots of great information to those who are struggling and can appreciate good advise. I thought you were looking for some answers when you ended your post with "Frustrated".
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I appreciate the advise and the time you took to post it.
 
Wow guys this thread has really taken a turn for the worse. I don't believe any legitimate e-collar user is suggesting that you just shock a dog until he/she "figures it out." But if a dog understands the collar and understands what you are trying to say to them then I think the collar is a good "tool." As I said earlier not everyone uses a collar in the same way or a way that I feel is "right."

But getting back to the original post I think the guy who asked the question has a few suggestions to try. I say lets leave it up to him to determine which method he wants to try. Maybe he tries a few different ones and lands on one that works for him and his dog. That to me is learning from others and taking advise. Maybe its time to shut this thread down and start a conversation of proper e-collar use.
 
Not sure what "taken a turn for the worse" means? I did not see anything that was insulting or offensive on this thread. It seemed like just a conversation to me with differing opinions. Why in the world would you shut a thread down over a civil conversation with differing opinions? Am I missing something here?
 
The link to my site is below, my contact is there. Anyone who wishes to come and have fun training is welcome. I always believe in "seeing is believing":D:thumbsup: People who offer help are just doing that, nothing more nothing less. But if your going to try and tell them they don't know what they are talking about, go get a national award, and champion some dogs first :). One thing I have never done is take advice from anyone any slap them in the face with it. I have soaked up training with many of the most well known pros in this country. Hall of fame folks, and very successful people in the business. I always continue to learn, learning never stops. And being open minded is key to having success. It also keeps it fun. I don't mind giving back to those who wish to receive it. All I know is the rain melted my snow is a fact, and I will be hunting my chubby rear end off this weekend with my field champion.;) Can't wait.
 
FCSpringer said:
The link to my site is below, my contact is there. Anyone who wishes to come and have fun training is welcome. I always believe in "seeing is believing":D:thumbsup: People who offer help are just doing that, nothing more nothing less. But if your going to try and tell them they don't know what they are talking about, go get a national award, and champion some dogs first :). One thing I have never done is take advice from anyone any slap them in the face with it. I have soaked up training with many of the most well known pros in this country. Hall of fame folks, and very successful people in the business. I always continue to learn, learning never stops. And being open minded is key to having success. It also keeps it fun. I don't mind giving back to those who wish to receive it. All I know is the rain melted my snow is a fact, and I will be hunting my chubby rear end off this weekend with my field champion.;) Can't wait.
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That is a extremely nice offer.
As someone that started out in trialing with some limited success in the beginning I believe there is much more to trialing than meets the eye. Anyone can do well once in awhile but to be in the ribbons consistently is just a whole other thing and takes someone with a plan and real knowledge that is not gained easily. I have been humbled by the whole experience. I still do not know if my dog will make it as a trial dog or if I have what it takes to continue to learn but I agree that the knowledge is there if you are willing to learn it. I soak in what I can from people that are willing to help.
 
FCSpringer said:
The link to my site is below, my contact is there. Anyone who wishes to come and have fun training is welcome. I always believe in "seeing is believing":D:thumbsup: People who offer help are just doing that, nothing more nothing less. But if your going to try and tell them they don't know what they are talking about, go get a national award, and champion some dogs first :). One thing I have never done is take advice from anyone any slap them in the face with it. I have soaked up training with many of the most well known pros in this country. Hall of fame folks, and very successful people in the business. I always continue to learn, learning never stops. And being open minded is key to having success. It also keeps it fun. I don't mind giving back to those who wish to receive it. All I know is the rain melted my snow is a fact, and I will be hunting my chubby rear end off this weekend with my field champion.;) Can't wait.
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I really enjoy reading the advice you give and wish i was closer to you!
 
chrokeva said:
Not sure what "taken a turn for the worse" means? I did not see anything that was insulting or offensive on this thread. It seemed like just a conversation to me with differing opinions. Why in the world would you shut a thread down over a civil conversation with differing opinions? Am I missing something here?
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Chrokeva, I think my reference to ending this thread is that the starter asked a question about a pup. What I see is a discussion about how to train and use e-collars and whistles. I think if we were to all sit in a room together we could probably have a great conversation about pointers and how to train them. About flushers and how to train them. And the difference between the training methods. I feel that maybe we have changed the intent of this thread, but maybe I am wrong and it needs to continue. I think later today I will throw out a question for flushers and for pointers on training tips. Maybe our dialog will continue there.
 
goldenboy said:
Chrokeva, I think my reference to ending this thread is that the starter asked a question about a pup. What I see is a discussion about how to train and use e-collars and whistles. I think if we were to all sit in a room together we could probably have a great conversation about pointers and how to train them. About flushers and how to train them. And the difference between the training methods. I feel that maybe we have changed the intent of this thread, but maybe I am wrong and it needs to continue. I think later today I will throw out a question for flushers and for pointers on training tips. Maybe our dialog will continue there.
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Agreed! And some people just need to work on their approach. Like being receptive to suggestions of others. Instead of statements like "you dont know how to train your dog", or "when people hunt with me, they have to leave their dogs at home". Pretty ridiculous. Some of the so called "dog trainers" on here never leave their basements I'm afraid. I see alot of talk with no pictures or friends to back it up. But with attitudes like that I would say they probably hunt alone most of the time.
 
Just to be clear, some people, like me, don't post pics here because it's unnecessarily difficult on this forum (and other forums). But you are welcome to come up and hunt and train with me!!
 
The pros just explained how to commonly stop a dog tracking a pheasant too fast for the flush to be in range of the gun. Both methods explained are the most common and effective over time. Of the labs I've had 2 would wait for me when they got close to the bird, looking over their shoulder and stopping the track till I caught up. Like a pointer they realized there was no retrieve without the gun going off. Both of these dogs were females, I had a partner with a swamp collie that never missed or lost his cool. Him or the dog. His tail would stop wagging while he looked back and waited for you then off it would go while he tracked at a fast walk most of the time. These were examples of natural dogs I have seen, the only training was birds and time.
 
goldenboy said:
Chrokeva, I think my reference to ending this thread is that the starter asked a question about a pup. What I see is a discussion about how to train and use e-collars and whistles. I think if we were to all sit in a room together we could probably have a great conversation about pointers and how to train them. About flushers and how to train them. And the difference between the training methods. I feel that maybe we have changed the intent of this thread, but maybe I am wrong and it needs to continue. I think later today I will throw out a question for flushers and for pointers on training tips. Maybe our dialog will continue there.
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I see what your saying about the thread taking a turn off the original posters questions (a 5 month old flushing dog) but some good suggestions on how to handle a dog on runners were made as well as some confusion on what pointers and flushers do and also some side talk about e-collars and whistles....but how is that different than any other thread on the internet? I do not see how closing the thread serves any purpose.
I think what may help is to have separate forums for flushers and pointers since they are really trained very differently and it is confusing for a newcomers (I say that from personnel experience when I started out).
 
goldenboy said:
Wow guys this thread has really taken a turn for the worse. I don't believe any legitimate e-collar user is suggesting that you just shock a dog until he/she "figures it out." But if a dog understands the collar and understands what you are trying to say to them then I think the collar is a good "tool." As I said earlier not everyone uses a collar in the same way or a way that I feel is "right."

But getting back to the original post I think the guy who asked the question has a few suggestions to try. I say lets leave it up to him to determine which method he wants to try. Maybe he tries a few different ones and lands on one that works for him and his dog. That to me is learning from others and taking advise. Maybe its time to shut this thread down and start a conversation of proper e-collar use.
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Never use an ecollar on an untrained dog unless necessary to save the dog's life, e.g., if the dog is running straight for the path of a motor vehicle, buffalo, mountain lion, etc. Ecollars are strictly for dogs who have been trained but, like humans, do not behave perfectly according to their training. Jolting a dog who disobeys "whoa" is only appropriate if the dog has been successfully trained to whoa, and my dog has.
 
Although I could not find a video of stopping my dog on a runner here my dog is on a runner and driving into scent until the bird flushes. If the bird had gone straight out I would be moving as fast as I could to keep in gun range. If I could not keep up I would blow the hup whistle but my dog has just recently gotten to a point that her flush was good enough to stop her on a runner.
 
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chrokeva said:
I see what your saying about the thread taking a turn off the original posters questions (a 5 month old flushing dog) but some good suggestions on how to handle a dog on runners were made as well as some confusion on what pointers and flushers do and also some side talk about e-collars and whistles....but how is that different than any other thread on the internet? I do not see how closing the thread serves any purpose.
I think what may help is to have separate forums for flushers and pointers since they are really trained very differently and it is confusing for a newcomers (I say that from personnel experience when I started out).
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Agreed. I think a lot of confusion goes on because of the style of dog flushers vs pointers.
 
BritChaser said:
Never use an ecollar on an untrained dog unless necessary to save the dog's life, e.g., if the dog is running straight for the path of a motor vehicle, buffalo, mountain lion, etc. Ecollars are strictly for dogs who have been trained but, like humans, do not behave perfectly according to their training. Jolting a dog who disobeys "whoa" is only appropriate if the dog has been successfully trained to whoa, and my dog has.
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I will agree with you! And while you say that an e-collar is for a trained dog, an e-collar should also be for a trained trainer. In other words, learn how use an e-collar and the purpose it serves for reinforcing learned behaviors. More dogs have been ruined by e-collars versus dogs who have been successfully trained.
 
westksbowhunter said:
I will agree with you! And while you say that an e-collar is for a trained dog, an e-collar should also be for a trained trainer. In other words, learn how use an e-collar and the purpose it serves for reinforcing learned behaviors. More dogs have been ruined by e-collars versus dogs who have been successfully trained.
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There have been a few guys over the years that I have hunted with that may have benefited from a shock or two
 
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