South Dakota Game Stop

quail hound said:
I believe they are viewed as warrantless searches by some George, something we are protected from by the 4th amendment.
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Actually, Ca wardens and probably all wardens have been found to not need a warrant or even probable cause to search vehicles by the Supreme Court. It's why, in Calif. at least, they always have a warden along when doing a drug bust. The question before the Court involved a Calif. case but it doesn't seem to have different facts in other states unless their constitution or laws are different.

http://ivn.us/2012/03/06/supreme-court-no-warrant-needed-for-ca-game-wardens-to-stop-cars/
 
Camouflage? orange clothing? Pickup trucks? Wouldn't that be profiling? ;)

It would be interesting to dig thru the results, that's for sure.

I've never been checked passing thru the state but wouldn't object to it either.
 
calamari said:
Actually, Ca wardens and probably all wardens have been found to not need a warrant or even probable cause to search vehicles by the Supreme Court. It's why, in Calif. at least, they always have a warden along when doing a drug bust. The question before the Court involved a Calif. case but it doesn't seem to have different facts in other states unless their constitution or laws are different.

http://ivn.us/2012/03/06/supreme-court-no-warrant-needed-for-ca-game-wardens-to-stop-cars/
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I understand wardens authority. Do I believe it's constitutional? Well, we all know about opinions.:thumbsup:

I personally have never had anything but a pleasant experience with game wardens, including stopping at a hunter check (off the highway) in Montana.
 
Checkpoints

Since the last one was in 2003 I don't think the checkpoint could be considered intrusive. I am not sure but I would think the officer would have to articulate some sort of suspicion to detain and then possibly search. Game Wardens have broad search authority and since they have limited resources I would think this would give them an idea of what is being missed and give them an opportunity to utilize several authorities and jurisdictions. I favor these checkpoints as long as they are random and produce results like people throwing pheasants out the window and six untagged deer. The one that gets old to me is the aquatic nuisance species on the boat but since there are no flying carp in my lakes I guess I shouldn't complain. Lots of Agencies can perform warrantless searches as long as they can articulate it and the circumstances justify it, I don't really understand all the pushback from a group of sportsmen.
 
PTM said:
Since the last one was in 2003 I don't think the checkpoint could be considered intrusive. I am not sure but I would think the officer would have to articulate some sort of suspicion to detain and then possibly search. Game Wardens have broad search authority and since they have limited resources I would think this would give them an idea of what is being missed and give them an opportunity to utilize several authorities and jurisdictions. I favor these checkpoints as long as they are random and produce results like people throwing pheasants out the window and six untagged deer. The one that gets old to me is the aquatic nuisance species on the boat but since there are no flying carp in my lakes I guess I shouldn't complain. Lots of Agencies can perform warrantless searches as long as they can articulate it and the circumstances justify it, I don't really understand all the pushback from a group of sportsmen.
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I agree. I try to follow the game laws as they are written in each State. It is nice when efforts are put in place to keep some in line. Unfortunately there are some that are not sportsmen that are only as honest as their chances of being caught. I have been on nearly 50 trips to SD over the years. I have been checked 2 times. Both times it was a federal game warden at Sand Lake Refuge. Funny one time a buddy had a violation and was issued a ticket. That warden was very nice. The other time we were in total compliance and that guy was an ass, almost as if he was disappointed that we had no violations.
 
When engaging in a activity controlled and regulated by the government you have a diminished reasonable expectation to privacy, you can challenge any action taken by the state in a court of law or petition your elected representative to change the law. You could always claim you have a natural right to forage for food but I don't think you'd be covered. Checking for game and licenses to and from the field has been ruled constitutional for better or worse. As it turns out the honor system is probably violated everyday in the hunting and fishing world and someone needs to be out there looking for a guy who would shoot 65 birds over his limit.
 
reddog said:
Camouflage? orange clothing? Pickup trucks? Wouldn't that be profiling? ;)
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Everyone except semi drivers had to pull off the interstate and go through the check. When I got up to an officer he asked if I had any fish or game on board. I said no and was on my way.
 
After hearing George's experience of this, I've concluded that I'm okay with this. Seems like it didn't waste much time for non-hunters, and as a sportsman I'm glad to interact with GF. I'm always on the up and up, checking and double checking shooting hours and regulations, so I see it as an opportunity to give that officer a chance have a positive interaction with someone. I'm also considerate of my firearm if I see an officer waiting by my truck as I leave the field, unloading my gun, opening the action, keeping the muzzle in a safe direction. There's been a few times when I watch relief spread across their face when they realize my weapon is empty and safe.
 
BRITTMAN said:
Outside of the guy tossing pheasants - it sounds like more violations were deer related.
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A retiring Kansas game warden wrote a piece in the KDWPT's magazine about his career. He said that in 20 years of being a warden he could not recall visiting a single deer camp where everything and everybody was legal.
 
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I retell a tale of Kansas game violations: A Kansas warden worked undercover for about two years gathering evidence on a group who were suspected of repeatedly shooting way over the limits on some birds. When the case was prosecuted it went to federal court because doves were involved, a migratory bird regulated by federal statute. In addition to the loss of hunting privileges and firearms, the group paid about $44,000.00, yes that is forty-four thousand dollars, in fines. This info is from the Kansas warden who led the investigation. There was a newspaper item about it too.
 
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Interesting take Zeb.

I really appreciate the work that most of our game wardens perform. I know state and federal biologists, but do not know any wardens ... That said, I have run into wardens that could NOT properly identify ducks (separate individuals on more than one occasion). They seem to want to make every brown duck (immature and hen gaddies and wigeon) into pintails which would then result in a ticket.

With one warden it went from somewhat confrontational to an appreciative tutorial. He learned much ... he did not grow up hunting ducks...

Anyway back to my point ...

The issue most of us have with checkpoints is the legality of the process. We all constantly walk a fine line between feeling safe and having our civil rights violated. Technology exists today to watch and listen inside of homes ... warrant needed ?

Look how fast they had identified the Boston Marathon Bombers. Fantastic indeed, but a little chilling on the civil rights front too.

I like to feel that only the guilty are caught and charged, but unfortunately that is not always the case.
 
BRITTMAN said:
The issue most of us have with checkpoints is the legality of the process. We all constantly walk a fine line between feeling safe and having our civil rights violated.
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That and the fact the checkpoints treat the good fruit in the same manor as the bad fruit. I'm traveling, going about my way, following local, state, and federal laws yet I'm still forced to pull over and subject to have myself, passengers, and my vehicle searched. It's demeaning, intrusive, invasive, belittling, and a gross display of power.

Again, catching law breakers is great, but at what cost to our liberties make it worth such actions?


Nick
 
1pheas4 said:
That and the fact the checkpoints treat the good fruit in the same manor as the bad fruit. I'm traveling, going about my way, following local, state, and federal laws yet I'm still forced to pull over and subject to have myself, passengers, and my vehicle searched. It's demeaning, intrusive, invasive, belittling, and a gross display of power.

Again, catching law breakers is great, but at what cost to our liberties make it worth such actions?


Nick
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Hear, Hear. Or as we approach Sunday ... skol :cheers:
 
1pheas4 said:
That and the fact the checkpoints treat the good fruit in the same manor as the bad fruit. I'm traveling, going about my way, following local, state, and federal laws yet I'm still forced to pull over and subject to have myself, passengers, and my vehicle searched. It's demeaning, intrusive, invasive, belittling, and a gross display of power.

Again, catching law breakers is great, but at what cost to our liberties make it worth such actions?


Nick
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Yes its like the Soviet Union of game wardens, come on bro. I respect everyone's opinion on the site but come on they did it twice in 13 years, I have been through a few checkpoints and I have never felt disrespected once.
I think your generalization of a game checkpoint is a little over the top. How many times have you experienced this first hand? Probably from a cost factor they are not worth it, so on that front I'm with you shut em down. :thumbsup:
 
I am glad to see these checks. Everyone talks about how much they hate poachers and how they never see law enforcement and then they make a presence and people complain. Follow the laws and you will not have an issue. The reality is there are very few officers to patrol a large area and this is a very efficient way to check a lot of sportsmen. We should all support law enforcement cleaning up our ranks. Even if it is a slight inconvenience.
 
Pointing lab said:
I am glad to see these checks. Everyone talks about how much they hate poachers and how they never see law enforcement and then they make a presence and people complain. Follow the laws and you will not have an issue. The reality is there are very few officers to patrol a large area and this is a very efficient way to check a lot of sportsmen. We should all support law enforcement cleaning up our ranks. Even if it is a slight inconvenience.
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:10sign:

Well said Mr. Pointing Lab
 
1pheas4 said:
That and the fact the checkpoints treat the good fruit in the same manor as the bad fruit. I'm traveling, going about my way, following local, state, and federal laws yet I'm still forced to pull over and subject to have myself, passengers, and my vehicle searched. It's demeaning, intrusive, invasive, belittling, and a gross display of power.

Again, catching law breakers is great, but at what cost to our liberties make it worth such actions?


Nick
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We ran through one of these checkpoints in Kansas about 12-15 years ago as my buddy and I were heading out to walk one more field on the Sunday of opening weekend. It was just outside of Lehigh on K-56. First we were asked if we had been drinking (to which my answer was "guns and alcohol don't mix, man," then we were directed to pull over to the side where the hunters were. We pulled in, and were approached by a state trooper, warden and a county sheriff.
Every one was very cordial and very pleasant. They asked if we had birds and if they could see them to make sure every thing was legal. We had a couple of roosters and four quail in plastic sacks in the trunks from earlier in the day. We said we were trying to make one more spot before sundown and they laughed and told us to get out of here and good luck.

Not once was it intrusive, belittling or demeaning. If this is a way to keep poachers in check, more power to the checkpoints.
 
I've been stopped at checkpoints, checked in the dark as I walked out to hunt and even had a warden wade out into the pond we were hunting to check our shells, plugs, bag and permits. I personally never objected to "showing my papers" to the authorities and to give a little understanding of why they do it here's one checkpoint experience.
Almost 20 years ago I was coming back into Calif through the old Truckee Ag Inspection station. It was when big game season had opened in a number of western states so they had wardens from those states at the station. If you had a boat, a horse trailer or in my case even an ice chest visible you were shunted over to be inspected. They had wardens and Highway Patrol cars ready to run you down if you tried to take streets to bypass the station. There was a boat in front of me that had an over limit of trout. The truck behind me in the line had a spike buck behind his seat. The warden said they'd caught a guy with a cut up horse earlier and had confiscated it until he produced the bill of sale he said he had. They thought he might have shot a wild mustang which was a big deal. It's not like they have nothing better to do. They find a lot of violations at checkpoints.
 
my biggest complaint is the asshole ND wardens who come to your door at 800 pm to count birds. i was always legal, but got tired of that crap and stopped hunting ND! :mad:
 
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