I raised this question in a separate post but thought I would start a new thread to get some perspective. I currently have two Springers that I love hunting behind. My wife would really like a GSP. I'm curious to hear from some of you former Flusher hunters out there that now have pointers and why you switched? I know how much I love the excitement hunting behind a good flushing dog and have never hunted with a pointer.
Why did you become a traitor? :)
- Thread starter sloth5202
- Start date
UplandHntr
Well-known member
why does your wife want a pointer?
Mostly for the coat maintenance.... not hunting related at all. I really don't want to put up to much of a fight and I would appreciate any dog regardless of breed.
My only hesitation is the training aspect of it. Both of my Springers were relatively easy to train out of the box. I worked really hard on obedience and made sure they had lots of birds.... I think I was pretty lucky because both are great hunting partners IMO. I take zero credit for their natural skill and ability and often times they make me look better than I actually am.... people say my wife does the same thing for me
Since I've never hunted with a pointer I can only assume that the training may be more complex which is fine but I just don't have a lot of experience. I know there is a lot of information out there and probably people even willing to help me along the way if I needed it but it is still kind of daunting.
My only hesitation is the training aspect of it. Both of my Springers were relatively easy to train out of the box. I worked really hard on obedience and made sure they had lots of birds.... I think I was pretty lucky because both are great hunting partners IMO. I take zero credit for their natural skill and ability and often times they make me look better than I actually am.... people say my wife does the same thing for me
Since I've never hunted with a pointer I can only assume that the training may be more complex which is fine but I just don't have a lot of experience. I know there is a lot of information out there and probably people even willing to help me along the way if I needed it but it is still kind of daunting.
goldenboy
Well-known member
One thing to remember when hunting in cold weather with a short haired dog is how they can handle days like today and tomorrow in Minnesota. Tomorrow morning it is supposed to be close to zero with wind chills in the minus 20-30 range. Some of the pointers with short hair do not do well in the cold. Nothing against the breed, they just can't handle the temps. As far a s the coat is concerned, they all shed. Short hair is easier to handle burrs, but I have not had major problems in the 20 plus years I have been running goldens.
JeremyS
New member
I will strongly disagree with a GSP not being able to handle the temps. Mine hunt these temps with no problem and I just came in from hunting then all morning. If you are going to send them into water at freezing temperatures, you may have problems, but as long as they are hunting and moving, there is no issue.
Yeah I'm not too concerned about the coat either way. No matter what you need to make sure you take care of your dog in both heat and cold... I do hate brushing out the pups after a long day in the field but I could do a better job of keeping them trimmed up.
I really didn't mean to start a what's better/worse type thread just curious why people who grow-up with a certain style of dog would switch. Curiosity? Getting older? Chance? Or like reddog getting "smarter" (I'm sure if we asked people he knows they might disagree)
All breeds have positives and negatives but good ones regardless of breed do one thing... FIND BIRDS! I truly enjoy watching a dog work and develop over the years and that's the reason I hunt.
I really didn't mean to start a what's better/worse type thread just curious why people who grow-up with a certain style of dog would switch. Curiosity? Getting older? Chance? Or like reddog getting "smarter" (I'm sure if we asked people he knows they might disagree
)All breeds have positives and negatives but good ones regardless of breed do one thing... FIND BIRDS! I truly enjoy watching a dog work and develop over the years and that's the reason I hunt.
If you made a list of things they need to be taught to do or not do which list would be longer? In my mind training a flusher has been pretty straightforward.... This isn't to say that my dogs shouldn't do more like being steady to shot. My dogs come when called... sit on command, flush bird and retrieve to hand. The process for pointers seems to have a few more steps. **Caution may cause debate** Retrieving seems to be a more involved process as well.
Remember I've never hunted behind a pointer and I'm sure there are a ton that retrieve like they breathe.
Ranger Rick
Member
I think there are some serious considerations when going to a breed you're not familiar with. I've seen some GSP's that are good foot shooting dogs. Also have seen some really hit test dogs that you'll never be able to keep up with on foot, or somewhere in between, but needing a ton of exercise.
A friend's daughter and her husband got a GSP pup. Neither hunt. And the pup doesn't get hardly any exercise. The dog literally is bouncing off the walls. The match for them with that dog is horrible. Not good for either the dog, who doesn't get any exercise [criminal!] and the owners, who ask themselves what the heck they got themselves into. It's a personal beef with me, people who get working breeds that never get any work, just because it's a "cool" looking dog, etc..
As an owner of Springers used to having them working in close, there will be an adjustment in your expectations for the new pup. Is it really worth the gamble to go with something you're not familiar with, just because they shed less? If you do decide to go with a GSP, do your research and find a breeding that matches your expectations, hunting style and lifestyle.
A friend's daughter and her husband got a GSP pup. Neither hunt. And the pup doesn't get hardly any exercise. The dog literally is bouncing off the walls. The match for them with that dog is horrible. Not good for either the dog, who doesn't get any exercise [criminal!] and the owners, who ask themselves what the heck they got themselves into. It's a personal beef with me, people who get working breeds that never get any work, just because it's a "cool" looking dog, etc..
As an owner of Springers used to having them working in close, there will be an adjustment in your expectations for the new pup. Is it really worth the gamble to go with something you're not familiar with, just because they shed less? If you do decide to go with a GSP, do your research and find a breeding that matches your expectations, hunting style and lifestyle.
reddog
Well-known member
Yeah I'm not too concerned about the coat either way. No matter what you need to make sure you take care of your dog in both heat and cold... I do hate brushing out the pups after a long day in the field but I could do a better job of keeping them trimmed up.
I really didn't mean to start a what's better/worse type thread just curious why people who grow-up with a certain style of dog would switch. Curiosity? Getting older? Chance? Or like reddog getting "smarter" (I'm sure if we asked people he knows they might disagree
All breeds have positives and negatives but good ones regardless of breed do one thing... FIND BIRDS! I truly enjoy watching a dog work and develop over the years and that's the reason I hunt.
I don't think I ever indicated that I got "smarter" when I switched horses.
It was a combination of a lifestyle change, and a change of hunting conditions and what brought me enjoyment. I love seeing my young dog 2-300 yards out in the middle of a mile of grassland. I use her as a search tool and let her run till she finds birds. Then I reign her in and we start hunting.
FCSpringer
Moderator
I went through a school of hard knocks. I will never own a German short hair ever again. Just not my cup o tea. Had several. Had several Labs. And some darn good ones that did what they were bred to do. But I fell in love with a good field bred work horse. The ESS and that's where they will bury me.:thumbsup: Good luck in your search and enjoy the experience of something new.
koja48
New member
I've had Labs my entire life. When I lost my Maggie at 10 years of age, it flat broke my heart. I went dogless for a year, but was invited to hunt over a pointer that pheasant season (a Griffon). I had a great time & since I no longer hunted waterfowl, I started researching various pointing breeds. When I discovered the Braque du Bourbonnais, I became enchanted by the breed; and even more so after I had spoken with Lonn Kuck at Elk Run Kennel in Idaho. The rest is history -- Hank is now 3, has been an excellent companion & house dog, and is a superb bird dog. The short, light-shedding coat is a plus. I still have a fondness for Labs (and Springers -- my Dad had one when I first started hunting), but I'll stick with the versatile, short-coated breeds from here on out.
koja48 - Do you remember what about that experience hunting behind the Grif you really enjoyed? I've looked at Braque's before... they seem like a great dog. Why do you think they aren't more popular with people?
I really do feel it's important to hunt behind a breed before you switch and preferably the sire and dam if you have a breeder you are interested in. My next dog is a long ways out but I'll make sure to hunt behind a couple of other breeds. I'll also introduce my wife to a couple of dogs which I'm thinking will warm her up to whatever breed we decide on.
All in all I'm guessing I will probably stick with the Springer. They really fit my style and I've just had such a good experience with them. I may have to keep FC on my speed dial
I really do feel it's important to hunt behind a breed before you switch and preferably the sire and dam if you have a breeder you are interested in. My next dog is a long ways out but I'll make sure to hunt behind a couple of other breeds. I'll also introduce my wife to a couple of dogs which I'm thinking will warm her up to whatever breed we decide on.
All in all I'm guessing I will probably stick with the Springer. They really fit my style and I've just had such a good experience with them. I may have to keep FC on my speed dial
koja48
New member
Sloth, I guess it was a combination of things: Watching the dog work, the exceptionally keen nose, the fact that I didn't have to walk at high-alert all the time or hustle to keep up with a dog on a running bird because when a pheasant was located & held I knew what to expect. The other factor was that I did want to try something different & a gentler, less-rambunctious pup that didn't shed profusely appealed to me & I decided against another Lab, because I feared I'd forever compare it to Maggie, who was exceptional. I hunt a lot of wide-open country in the west; if I were hunting a lot of cattails or other dense cover, I'd likely hunt a flusher & probably a Lab or Springer.
When I got Hank, there were only a couple reputable breeders & only one near me in the Northwest, so I'd guess that limited availability explains why you don't see more Braque du Bourbonnais around. I had also looked at the Braque Francais, GSP, & Griffons. Setters were out because there are too damn many burrs out here & I didn't want a dog bigger than 50-pounds; Setters are beautiful, stylish dogs & fine hunters, however. I've also hunted over them; a Setter just didn't fit my wants. Pointers were also too large.
I've yet to hear anyone diss the Braque du Bourbonnais myself & Hank has received nothing but high praise from the folks who have seen him work; he is 200# of heart in a 48# frame. Since I'm 67, Hank is likely my last "hunting" bird dog, but I would get another Bourbonnais from Elk Run in a heartbeat if the need arose & I am still able to hunt. Ideally, it would be nice to have a flusher and a pointer, but I'm a one-dog-at-a-time kind of guy and Hank and I share an exceptionally tight, go-everywhere-together bond. There will always be a dog in my life, but if there is a next one and I'm no longer hunting, it will probably be smaller and of the lap dog variety, since bird dogs are born to hunt and deserve the opportunity to do just that.
Best of luck in your quest.
When I got Hank, there were only a couple reputable breeders & only one near me in the Northwest, so I'd guess that limited availability explains why you don't see more Braque du Bourbonnais around. I had also looked at the Braque Francais, GSP, & Griffons. Setters were out because there are too damn many burrs out here & I didn't want a dog bigger than 50-pounds; Setters are beautiful, stylish dogs & fine hunters, however. I've also hunted over them; a Setter just didn't fit my wants. Pointers were also too large.
I've yet to hear anyone diss the Braque du Bourbonnais myself & Hank has received nothing but high praise from the folks who have seen him work; he is 200# of heart in a 48# frame. Since I'm 67, Hank is likely my last "hunting" bird dog, but I would get another Bourbonnais from Elk Run in a heartbeat if the need arose & I am still able to hunt. Ideally, it would be nice to have a flusher and a pointer, but I'm a one-dog-at-a-time kind of guy and Hank and I share an exceptionally tight, go-everywhere-together bond. There will always be a dog in my life, but if there is a next one and I'm no longer hunting, it will probably be smaller and of the lap dog variety, since bird dogs are born to hunt and deserve the opportunity to do just that.
Best of luck in your quest.
Last edited:
This is key. Think about your style, what you hunt, and does it fit your lifestyle?
My wife is severely asthmatic but a triathlete and runner. We have a Vizsla and GSP because we needed short haired dogs. We live a very active lifestyle and these dogs fit our lifestyle outside of hunting (running, skiing, hiking, mountain biking, etc).
When it comes to the style of hunting we prefer and the species we hunt (grouse, pheasant, and huns), having pointers was the best fit. I've always enjoyed hunting with pointers (had Britts growing up) and always will. They fit my style and you need to pick what fits your lifestyle both in the field and out of the field. Go slow, do plenty of research, talk to many breeders, and make a smart decision. Good luck!
Ranger Rick
Member
I've hunted over setters my entire life. I have a picture of me at a few months old, crawling on the floor with dad's setter. I prefer a good foot shooting pointing dog over a flusher, period. My personal preference and not a slight at all on the good labs, springers, etc., I've hunted with over the years.
An experience hunting with a buddy and his lab is a good example why. 4 guys, two followed the lab and two of us with my setter. My companion had to be told to slow down, let the dog hunt, as he was used to having to chase the lab. I hear my buddy yell "Chief's on one!" and he's hoofing it for all he's worth to keep up to be in shooting position. We meet back at the car and my companion comments to my buddy about how cool it was to hunt behind my setter. We had a couple roosters to back it up, too. Shot over staunch points. The other two guys were worn out, panting and sweating. My buddy went from that lab to a Brittany and now has another pup to replace the original Britt when it got old.
An experience hunting with a buddy and his lab is a good example why. 4 guys, two followed the lab and two of us with my setter. My companion had to be told to slow down, let the dog hunt, as he was used to having to chase the lab. I hear my buddy yell "Chief's on one!" and he's hoofing it for all he's worth to keep up to be in shooting position. We meet back at the car and my companion comments to my buddy about how cool it was to hunt behind my setter. We had a couple roosters to back it up, too. Shot over staunch points. The other two guys were worn out, panting and sweating. My buddy went from that lab to a Brittany and now has another pup to replace the original Britt when it got old.
Great illustration of the difference! It's all a matter of the way you want to hunt. It would definitely be interesting to hunt behind a good pointer some day and really experience a different way of hunting.
My two springers both hunt relatively close so chasing is never too much of an issue but every now and then one of them has one of those days where they get a bug up there a$$ and go like a bat out hell at first. Either way we have a blast!
My two springers both hunt relatively close so chasing is never too much of an issue but every now and then one of them has one of those days where they get a bug up there a$$ and go like a bat out hell at first. Either way we have a blast!