when to intro to a pistol

birdman652001

birdman652001

New member
sophia is now 3.5 months old... professional training websites say to intro your dog to guns at 6 months or older... ive seen gundog magazines had 4 months old pups already in the field... did they do gun training prior?


i wanna play this safe and not force her, shes a pup.. im letting her be a pup. right now shes learning housebreaking of potty, sit, lay down and such... no hunting training yet. im taking the best advice as i can, let her be a pup... GSP will grow out of their pup phase at the age of 1.5-2 years of age.


so i ask you fellows that have GSP, when did you intro your dog to guns?
 
Six months minimum for me. There's just so much that can be worked on prior to introducing the gun. Why rush it? Fixing a gun shy dog is a task that I NEVER want to have to deal with.
 
As soon as I can run them and they are out in front of me 20 yards ro so. I have started as young as 10 weeks. It is the method you use, I have discussed this servel times on here and servel have tried my method and it works........Bob
 
You sound upset.. like when you said: "It is the method you use, I have discussed this servel times on here and servel have tried my method and it works" like no other professional can say it otherwise.. use my method.. and youve discussed it several times.... but is it the CORRECT one for dogs like GSP? i mean your training was for a brittany...


is your method recommended by a professional or just your preference? every professional advice i got even from a GSP, Brittany trainner told me to wait til 6 months. said its essential to train whoa and other hunting commands before intro to guns and by 6th month, your dog should be ready for gun and already trained to go after its used to the gun youre going to use in the field.


so right now, he said its too harsh to intro guns before even 3 months old, your dog could be prone to gunshy.

HENCE why i posted. some have opinion but i wanna make sure that even a seasoned professional is correct. which im assuming.
 
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I'm sure a 10 wk old puppy could be intro'd to the gun. I guess my question is why would you? Serious question. What do you stand to gain? Risk benefit seems way too tilted to the risk side for me.

Like I said, there are just SO MANY other things to work on with a pup. Why risk it? IMHO, it is easy to push too hard. Puppies just aren't ready for a lot of pressure. The hardest problems to fix are the ones we create. Let em be a pup.

Once the pup is completely GaGa over birds and has had multiple contacts with live birds, I will start working in a pistol. But that isn't until he's been collar conditioned, check cord conditioned, and well on his way to being whoa broke. I just can't get that kind of work done before a pup is 6 months old. YMMV.
 
And, Yes, this is only my OPINION. I am certainly not an authority, though I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. :D
 
I am sure not a pro....flip, I'm not even a good amatuer trainer, but I really think it comes down to the individual dog and how you approach the training.

My ESS was SO enthusiastic about retrieving that I started using blanks with his play retrieves at 3 months. Worked up from there and at 6 months(last month) he was sitting at heel and bringing back doves from my 16 bore.

He is started on quartering and I am shooting pigeons and pen raised quail over him now.

Again, what do I know:confused:, but I think it depends on the pup.

Bob M
 
GSP said:
And, Yes, this is only my OPINION. I am certainly not an authority, though I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. :D
Click to expand...

youre entitled then!! all bc you stayed at a holiday inn!!!


im gonna play it safe and intro the gun to her at 6 months of age.
 
Bobs point was the method that you use is more important than the age that you start them at. The method he describes is a very common one among trainers.
 
Shooting Around the Pup

First, I am not a trainer, but have trained my own dogs. When my first dog was old/big enough to handle a run in the fields -- starting at about 6 months -- I would carry my .44 and shoot off 3 - 4 rounds at random on several such outings. I made sure the dog was out front and I said nothing either before or after firing -- I just kept walking as if an occasional loud noise was part of a walk in the field. The dog paid no attention to the sound. Later when the season began and the dog began associating loud bangs with pheasants, whenever it heard gunfire, even in the distance, the dog looked around for the fun stuff. It had learned to love the sound of gunfire.

Good luck with the training.
 
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I agree that it does depend on the dog. I was shooting wild birds over my male springer at 5 months. My female, I was much slower with-more like 8 or 9 months and I still was moving too fast for her.

I have a 5 1/2 month old red setter that I have just graduated to the 12 gauge with and he is entirely comfortable and worried about the bird.
 
If your pup is crazy about birds, I wouldn't not be afraid to introduce the .22 blank as soon as you realize this. Just start out farther away when he is chasing a bird, I'll bet you pup doesn't even hear it. Move in a little closer each time but make sure he is fully distracted before firing. Soon he will associate the bang with birds and he will be excited to hear it. I would wait closer to 6 months before introducing a shotgun though. Then have a training partner shoot a .410 or .20 ga from 100 yds and close the distance. Very important to read the pup though, don't progress unless you feel 100% confident that he was not phased by the blast.
 
My concern about waiting is that I want the pup to associate loud noises w/ something good. This way if he happens to hear a car backfire, or any other potentially scary sound before he's gunproofed, he won't have a fearful response that can become habit.

As soon as my puppies get comfortable w/ me, I start feeding them next to the clothes dryer. As he's eating, I open & close the dryer door; gently at first & watchful of his response. I make sure not to startle him. Typically he'll stop eating for a second & look up but gradually, he learns to ignore the sound completely even as I slam it so hard it reverberates.

I believe this helps build an association between loud noises & good things.

I once bought a pup from a breeder who left a TV on the "western channel" in the whelping room so the pups became inured to the sound of random gunfire.
 
Nimrod said:
I once bought a pup from a breeder who left a TV on the "western channel" in the whelping room so the pups became inured to the sound of random gunfire.
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interesting theory...



sometimes when im walking her or shes just laying there playing with her toy.. i'll clap as loud as i can and she just looks back and gets back to what she was doing.. as a 8 week pup.. she was scared of tractors and loud noises but again 8 weeks just came out of a whelping box... she was getting accustomed to noises and she did... so im thinking i'll be fine but timing is when. when i take her with me to hunting just to have her there, she will probably hear distance gunshots and i'll see what happens and at this time, i will bring my starter pistol with me and let her roam a CRP thats not being hunted... and see what she does.
 
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birdman652001 said:
interesting theory...



sometimes when im walking her or shes just laying there playing with her toy.. i'll clap as loud as i can and she just looks back and gets back to what she was doing.. as a 8 week pup.. she was scared of tractors and loud noises but again 8 weeks just came out of a whelping box... she was getting accustomed to noises and she did... so im thinking i'll be fine but timing is when. when i take her with me to hunting just to have her there, she will probably hear distance gunshots and i'll see what happens and at this time, i will bring my starter pistol with me and let her roam a CRP thats not being hunted... and see what she does.
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Why would you do any of that?

Why take the chance?

All this nonsense about clanking stuff around the dog when it is eating, surprising it, etc. What's the point? You're risking frightening the dog at zero benefit. Just because your dog will let you slam the dryer door, or play the TV loud, dosn't have anything to do with firing a gun in the field.

Ever see a completely gun broke dog that is scared of thunderstorms or fireworks? I have, plenty of them. Dogs are situational learners.

Don't take the pistol when she's roaming a CRP field. That's not the time to intro the gun. Take the pistol when she's flat out insane over some birds that you have planted in a CONTROLLED situation.
 
Puppies are going to be around loud noises and will more than likely be startled at first. Many times they will look to you for reassurance, if they see you aren't scared they won't be either and realize loud noises are part of life. With that said, you do want to control what happens when they are around birds. Banging pots at dinner time is hardly a comparison to a 12 ga blast near by. It scares the hell out of me when I hear a shotgun close by when I don't expect it, and quite frankly its not a pleasant sound. However, if I see a dog on point, a covey flushed followed by 2 shots, its music to my ears. The same can be said for your dog.
 
WildPhez said:
Puppies are going to be around loud noises and will more than likely be startled at first. Many times they will look to you for reassurance, if they see you aren't scared they won't be either and realize loud noises are part of life. With that said, you do want to control what happens when they are around birds. Banging pots at dinner time is hardly a comparison to a 12 ga blast near by. It scares the hell out of me when I hear a shotgun close by when I don't expect it, and quite frankly its not a pleasant sound. However, if I see a dog on point, a covey flushed followed by 2 shots, its music to my ears. The same can be said for your dog.
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Well said. You made the point much more eloquently than I.
 
You will get 10 ideas from 10 people. I have 2 here at almost 7 months old and have not heard a shot. I get them all a intro to control in the field, 1'4ing, hupping and taking cast offs first. Then they go to finding there birds on the ground. Then flyers. After chasing flyers and sucker birds, which I just did, for a few sessions I intro the gun and in a certain way. I never rush it. I could care less if a 6 month old pup gets hunted on wild roosters the first season any way. Useualy if born in spring, they will get to have a crack at a couple the last week or so. But I like to give them a few hens first in training. A pup born at say xmas time would stand a better chance under me to get more shooting and some hunting in the fall. I don't own a starter pistol.
 
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GSP said:
Why would you do any of that?

Why take the chance?

All this nonsense about clanking stuff around the dog when it is eating, surprising it, etc. What's the point? You're risking frightening the dog at zero benefit. Just because your dog will let you slam the dryer door, or play the TV loud, dosn't have anything to do with firing a gun in the field.

Ever see a completely gun broke dog that is scared of thunderstorms or fireworks? I have, plenty of them. Dogs are situational learners.
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Iâ??m simply â??de-sensitizingâ?� the dog to loud noises. Itâ??s just not realistic for me to prevent my pups from being exposed to loud noises until theyâ??re ready for birds & I want to make sure they donâ??t have some negative reaction while Iâ??m not around that that might develop into a bigger problem later.

I didnâ??t mean to imply that slamming the dryer door is a substitute for the proper introduction to gunfire. I do it because I can closely observe the pupâ??s reaction under controlled conditions and adjust the volume & frequency of the noise accordingly.

Coincidentally, Iâ??ve never had a dog that was afraid of thunderstorms since I started doing this either.
 
When I feel the pup has chased good and does not balk at flapping wings etc. I take a clip wing pigeon, and hup the dog in front of me. I have a gunner with a low base or a popper shell, (Light load) down wind always, about 60 yards away. I throw the bird as far and high as I can, with the wind. It can flap out quite a ways before coming down. If the bird some how heads toward the gun, do it over. The pup will and must be in chase, if not I don't shoot. Just before the pup reaches the bird, say a few feet. I raise my hand and the gunner fires away from the dog. He only shoots if I raise my hand. That way if I see something I don't like he wont shoot. 99 % of the time it is fine and the pup will pay no mind to the gun. I repeat this several times and gradually have the gun moved in closer over several "different" sessions say 3 or 4 tosses per session. After worked into reasonable gun range, I plant flyer's for the dog, and run them into the wind 1/4ing. (always in to the wind). They will flush and chase, and then let it ride a ways before shooting. Never blast it right in front of the dog short. If it ends up too close to the dog and the gun, just do another and let it fly away. It always works well and the praise follows. I keep using light loads until the dog is doing it with good confidence, a few weeks. Then a bit more shell and some smaller hen pheasants. Reason being hens, is because roosters, right off the bat, can hurt a dog. Have you ever been tore open by a rooster claw? Well a dogs face and eyes, lips , nose etc. can get the same thing, They do the death flop from hell offten and can scrape a pups face. If it is one of there first experiences dealing with live birds, it can make the flush poor, or make them not want to pick up a bird ever again. It may not happen, but can and does. taking this slower approach is full proof 99.9999999% of the time and there will not be any issues. Dogs are not born gun shy, they are made that way by human error. My self, I am lucky to have never had a gun shy dog using this approach,and it useualy results in great flushes or quick pick ups. I have seen plenty that were rushed, that ended up gun shy. Hope this helped.
 
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