What is Perfect Point of Impact??

A5 Sweet 16

A5 Sweet 16

Well-known member
I see things about shooting big game at various angles, mostly as it relates to putting a bullet or arrow through an animal's vitals in the most effective way.

But what about a pheasant? Let's assume the densest part of your shotgun pattern is pretty evenly distributed throughout a 30" circle. And let's ignore shot string for the time being. Where would that 30" pattern ideally be centered on a rooster?

As I think about this theoretical situation, it seems like anywhere from its butt (or almost that far back) to its beak should be just fine. If, in fact, shot is equally distributed in a 30" circle, the head, neck, wings, vitals, & legs should stand an equal chance of being hit, as long as they're somewhere in the circle. No?

Maybe some of you who do a lot of patterning have some different ideas. Would it be ideal to be high or low, since the wings spend the most time NOT in line with the body's axis? Or again, if you're centered somewhere on the birds axis, are those high/low wing positions equally well covered?

This may not be very interesting or helpful and is likely to cause me to miss shots next weekend. But does anyone have any thoughts?
 
My lead changes depending on the position of the bird. Crossing shots, I lead so I put one pellet just behind the eye. Going away shots I put one pellet in each wing bone where it meets the breast, and one in each leg joint. That way I can wring its neck and lose no meat.

I know you said to ignore shot string, but I can't. I always attempt to make my point of impact be the head. My hope is if I miss out front, the tail of the string might catch something? I haven't done the math on the shot string and time to target etc., but that is my naïve goal.

What about going away shots? Better to shoot lower and take out the legs and belly, or better to shoot higher and take out the wings and spine? If only I was good enough to choose my miss.

I shot a little bit of some hand thrown clays over the weekend, and was proclaimed to be the master at single pellet breaks. I hit 90%+ of the clays, but probably half were weak breaks. I've never claimed to be a good shot. There's something in my shooting I need to figure out. Out of the pile of ruffies I've shot this year, I've found pellets in the breast of less than 10% of those birds. In the pheasants, I've found pellet(s) in I'd say 50% of the breasts. That would make sense as I've lost a few pheasant in my learning curve this year. Very frustrating and disappointing, but nothing that cannot be improved with practice and experience.
 
Shoot the ball off their nose. Shoot the leading edge. Just shoot in front, don't think. All the same, swing and shoot. Get mad and kill em.
Mount and swing, all one motion. Shoot an imaginary bird every 5-10 minutes, the kill will be automatic.
 
Pattern your gun on your favorite shells.

My little 20 ga. O/U patterned poorly on #4s and larger (lead and steel). Great pattern on steel 7s and lead 7.5s ... so perfect for ruffed grouse. I use "7"s for pheasant too with the understanding if I want to reach out ... case the 20 and use the 12.
 
I personally don't like the phrase "miss in front. " I don't think that helps anyone hit any more birds. If you're missing behind, it's most likely because you are looking at the bead or barrel and stopping your swing. Also, most pheasants don't take very much forward allowance. I surmise that I miss more birds in front than behind. I know I have video from a miss, and I see plain as day that I whip the muzzles way out past the bird and miss him twice with the same mistake. Sometimes when I get too fearful of a miss I do this, I move the gun way too fast. Another problem can be insertion point. I'll start the muzzles just in front of the bird and when I make my move I'm out in front again. Much better to insert on his butt or center mass and pull ahead in my opinion. I do agree when a novice shoots they may miss behind, but once you've done a bit of shooting this is no longer a problem. I also would guess more birds are missed by shooting under rather than over. I would guess most roosters are rising slightly, even if they don't look it. As always there are exceptions. It's an interesting topic I think about often. I think the best thing you can do is make a good visual connection on the head or neck and pull the trigger when it feels right. I will ad, I've also had my share of misses when the gun mount just doesn't feel right. This is something you try and minimize with mounting the gun at home and of course experience in the field. Screenshot_20231127_154519_Gallery.jpg
 
Imagining a pattern to be a 30" circle, I would like to see it centered just in front of the beak. This does take the shot string into account.

Or there's this guy on YouTube with a yellow lab who just keeps blasting until they fall. Seems to work alright for him. ;)
 
My son is a very, very good clay target shooter. Yes, he has missed a pheasant or two this season, but all the birds he has killed were dead on ground impact. Target shooting will make you a better hunter.

We shoot clays quite often and I really like watching how the clays break ... you can tell if you are hitting top, bottom, front or rear.
 
Quite a few guns actually tend to shoot high (above the plane of the barrel or rib). I learned this when patterning a shotgun or two for turkey hunting.
 
There is no such thing as perfect lead. A great way to practice for pheasants, quail, etc. is to shoot skeet. The crossing shots are especially instructive; I find it very hard to shoot too far in front if I keep swinging my gun. What often happens with new shooters is, yes, they pull way out in front, but then they STOP THEIR GUN. This is a sure way to miss. Another factor: How fast do you swing? Some folks look at a 90 degree crossing target and see a 2' lead; some see a 4' lead, etc. In bird hunting, as in skeet, the swing is the thing!! Also, have you patterned your shotgun with the load you'll use on birds? If you do, you might get a surprise!
I recently bought a 20 gauge Beretta A400 with kickoff. I love the gun. It came with 5 chokes. I patterned all the chokes one day. The cylinder, at 25 yards, works beautifully on clays and close in bird shots. The mod choke works very well on longer shots. I can't hit a thing with the IC and IM chokes; they don't pattern well with the loads I use. I suggest you pattern your gun(s). It makes a difference!
Best advice is to shoot--a LOT--before the seasons open. An old guy once told me "I'm a pretty good shot now--but I've looked at a few million birds!" Well said.....
 
I can tell you that over the last 30 years, it takes me longer to get on target and pull the trigger. I have always been one to let the clay move a bit further than most (before the stake on a skeet range though). I also usually do not shoot at birds until others have the first chance.

Still I watch my 20-something-year-old son crush targets in spots where I probably am just getting on the bird.

If you want to better approximate real hunting >>> hold your gun low when you yell pull vs. having it on your shoulder.
 
Something that helped me shim my Benelli 28ga was the Garmin Xero S1 on the trap range. Set it for Practice/Custom/Station 3 and lock the trap to throw straight ahead. Shoot 25 rounds.

For each shot it will show you this: It's a clean break (good hit), the center of the shot pattern was 7 inches high and a bit right of the clay which broke at 30 yards.
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It also gives a lot of other info, like reaction time. This will tell a lot about accuracy when shooting quickly or slowly. The green lines are breaks, reds are misses. It even gives velocity on the loads; helpful if you're a reloader.

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My club has one and it rents for $20 an hour. I think it's a bargain. In my case, it showed I was consistently putting the pattern low on the target. I was breaking them but I was always low. Easy job to adjust the drop up to move my eye up. After that I was putting the pattern pretty much right on the target. Took the gun over to the skeet field and broke 23 with it and solid breaks. Pretty satisfied.

YMMV but I found it more informative than the pattern board for adjusting POI.
 
I see your point; I would take a neck center as far as point of impact. More of a chance of breaking wings and head shots. I think lead is relevant to an individual. The faster the swing the less lead. But if you saw me shoot, you'd think I preferred the lower legs.
 
My apologies, I should have added my thoughts on lead to that Garmin post.

AFTER I know where the center of my pattern is going considering the way I mount my gun, I'm a head/front half shooter.

Ideally, I want the center of the pattern just ahead of the beak on crossers. Going away, I'd like the center right about the neck/wing joint. If the wing(s) get broken, they won't fly off. If you get pellets through the thinner skin on the upper back and into the lungs/vitals they don't go to far even if they still have their wheels.

Shooting them in the tail section/hindquarters seems about the worst shot placement to me. It still happens to me but that's certainly not what I'm trying to do.

Lead is a funny thing. There's an interesting discussion going on in a Skeet topic. The posit is that ALL correct actual lead on a skeet field from any station is 4 feet. However, due to the angular nature of the skeet stations, this 4 foot lead is not the perceived lead, not what you think you see. The only time actual matches perceived is on station 4, the essentially 90 degree shot. I've enjoyed reading that thread.
 
Wolfchief said:
What often happens with new shooters is, yes, they pull way out in front, but then they STOP THEIR GUN. This is a sure way miss.
Click to expand...
But telling them, or yourself, that the gun stopped moving doesn't help at all. It's the WHY, that is important. The why almost all the time is taking the eyes off the bird. The eyes lead and the hands follow. Get good vision on the target all the way through the shot and success will increase.
 
I just do my best to put the bird in the center of my pattern, I don't think about shot string, I am not convinced that it is much of a factor. When I miss I (feel) am usually under or behind them. When I say "under" it is "behind" them, as in "going away" but when they are also rising and I don't account for that. This shooting has to become somewhat instinctive before you really are hitting more than you miss. This comes naturally to some, the rest of us it could take years (or countless rounds) to get decent....I was more of the second...no, I was completely the second, many years.
 
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