Upland bliss

IRISHWHISTLER

IRISHWHISTLER

Member
Aye Mates,
Headed out with one o' me gunning Mates (Bill) for some upland bird hunting today. We had three Labrador Retrievers of varying ages and abilities with us. We worked the dogs individually so that we could concentrate on the specific needs of each dog.

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HAT TRICK
Me 5 year old gun dog TRAD is always fun to watch working birds as his persistence cover hugging roosters is nothing short o' relentless.


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ALLIE MAE
Now 18 months old, this yellow female British Labrador sired by me gun dog TRAD is really coming into her own during her debut season. ALLIE MAE is owned by me gunning Mate Bill.
We worked ALLIE MAE on remaining steady to wing, shot, and fall during today's hunt, marking skills, and game bird recovery in heavy cover.



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WHISTLE STOP
Eight month old MAC is being hunted during his first season with emphasis on maintaining obedience and control whilst afield. Here MAC immediately sits upon a single blast o' me whistle and remains seated until released. MAC was further worked on sitting and remaining steady upon wing, shot, and fall, marking the flight and fall o' the bird, and being released by name to make the retrieve. MAC is expected to return to the handler and sit at heel to make a classic presentation to hand upon issue o' the command "GIVE". MAC was sired by me gun dog TRAD and is out of a different dam than his half sibling ALLIE MAE. MAC is coming along tremendously well very early on in his development as a gun dog.


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MAC HOLD
Upon is return o' the successful retrieve o' this rooster pheasant from challenging cover, MAC is issued the commands to SIT and HOLD. An intensely focused and highly bird driven pup, our hunts with MAC are specific to establishing the control needed to move onward to more complex and advanced levels of training. This young pup loves to work and the retrieve has already been established as the ultimate high value reward for MAC.


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UPLAND BLISS
T'was a grand day afield for meself and Bill as we gunned for upland birds and watched our retrievers meeting the training objectives we have focused upon and applying those attained skill sets during practical field experience.

Faugh A Ballagh,
THE DOG WHISTLER 🍀🇮🇪🇺🇸
 
Geez those are great pictures. Can’t believe the clarity and contrast in the colors. Good job!
 
Hec k yeah, long live the lab!! I have a yellow, and she is top shelf.I did not do any training,just hunted a lot.She works close, and retrieves to hand.I did use a retrieving dummy when she was a puppy.I would like to get a black puppy, but I don't want to make my yellow mad.
 
Whistler, I have a question. Are you spending the time to train them so well with the intent of field trials? Just for your own hunting? Breeding credentials?

I ask, as I have hunted with some poorly-trained and non-trained dogs that were not any fun to hunt with. I have also, only recently, hunted with a very few dogs where the owners spent lots of time training their pups, and they are a joy to hunt over. It seems that very few dog owners spend the time to train a dog for hunting, unless they are going to use them for field trials or breeding. Not a problem if that is the goal, but I like to hunt with dogs whose "purpose" is hunting, and not for show. I have also been told that dogs that are excellent in field trials often don't make good hunters outside of the competitive arena. It sounds like you and your hunting buddies have put in lots of time training your dogs, and the results look
 
Logical said:
Whistler, I have a question. Are you spending the time to train them so well with the intent of field trials? Just for your own hunting? Breeding credentials?

I ask, as I have hunted with some poorly-trained and non-trained dogs that were not any fun to hunt with. I have also, only recently, hunted with a very few dogs where the owners spent lots of time training their pups, and they are a joy to hunt over. It seems that very few dog owners spend the time to train a dog for hunting, unless they are going to use them for field trials or breeding. Not a problem if that is the goal, but I like to hunt with dogs whose "purpose" is hunting, and not for show. I have also been told that dogs that are excellent in field trials often don't make good hunters outside of the competitive arena. It sounds like you and your hunting buddies have put in lots of time training your dogs, and the results look
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Aye Mate,
Interesting questions ye pose. The answer is actually "all of the above". I have been a hunter for nearing 50 years (upland birds, waterfowl, and big game as well). My love for sporting dogs started early on in life and I owned hounds as a young lad and have been working, training, competing, and living with retrievers for over 35 years. I train a limited number of client dogs each year. Additionally, I have my own personal gun dogs that I also run in both AKC and HRC hunt tests. My main focus with every retriever I choose to work with is to make that retriever a highly competent gun dog that is a pleasure to hunt over. Some of the dogs I train as gun dogs go on to become hunt test K9 athletes as their owners see the potential for their dog(s) to thrive in that arena. Other dogs I work with are trained specifically as gun dogs (most being cross trained to hunt both upland birds and waterfowl). I set very high standards for the dogs that I work with and I train diligently to have those retrievers succeed in meeting those standards.

I spend numerous hours each week focused on the dogs I work with. I personally have no interest in "showing" dogs for breed conformation. I have bred my current sire twice to two really nice dams and have to date produced 16 beautiful pups from those two breedings. Both of those breedings have been by request for my sire as a stud for those dams by their owners (one of those dams is owned by my veterinarian). Any breeding agreements I enter into are specifically with a focus on proper health clearances and for the betterment of the breed. I would never have my sire bred to an unsuitable dam with improper health clearances and that did not possess the traits I look for with the objective of producing great field performance retrievers.

As for field trial dogs being unsuitable as hunting dogs, that simply is not accurate. Many serious field trailers do not hunt their trial dogs because they want a dog that handles in direct response to the handler and does not hunt instinctually on it's own. I have also known of many field trial and hunt test retrievers that are incredible hunting gun dogs as well. The matter can be over simplified or needlessly complex and really is determined by breeding and training toward specifically desired skill sets and behaviors. My personal dogs both hunt and hunt test and are a joy to work with in both regards. In general all dogs are individuals with specific needs and many overlapping behavioral norms. Usually dogs with the right breeding and diligently applied training by a competent trainer will rise to attaining high standards of field performance that will make them a joy to hunt over. Conversely, it has been my experience that the majority of problems or poorly performing dogs are created by their owners or incompetent trainers. Essentially, outstanding performance will be proportional to the efforts made in providing a gun dog prospect with competent and methodical training designed with success of that retriever as it's ultimate objective.

I live, train, and hunt test specifically to hunt birds over my dogs.

I hope that answers your questions satisfactorily.

Cheers Mate,
THE DOG WHISTLER 🍀🇮🇪🇺🇸
 
"I hope that answers your questions satisfactorily.

Cheers Mate,
THE DOG WHISTLER"

Absolutely! Thanks for the in-depth explanations, and debunking the field-trial/hunting dog misinformation. I don't have first-hand experience with hunting over a field-trail dog, so that information was given to me (by a hunting-dog owner).

Best wishes this hunting season, and in your field trials!
 
logical said:
"i hope that answers your questions satisfactorily.

Cheers mate,
the dog whistler"

absolutely! Thanks for the in-depth explanations, and debunking the field-trial/hunting dog misinformation. I don't have first-hand experience with hunting over a field-trail dog, so that information was given to me (by a hunting-dog owner).

Best wishes this hunting season, and in your field trials!
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roger that. 👍
 
My dad trained gun dogs for a living for many years. His personal dogs were field trial dogs. Of those one was a FC, another QAA and another was a young male that made the derby list but died at 2 years of age due to unknown circumstances. He had many other field trial dogs but those are the ones that I can remember. He washed out a few due to them just not being able to compete at that level.

All of his field trial labs doubled as duck dogs as well. There is absolutely nothing like hunting over a dog that is steady, will mark multiple falls, and birds that fall a long way out. Also having a dog that can run blinds for those birds they didn’t see fall. So the misconception that field trial dogs can’t hunt is just that, a misconception. I’d much rather hunt over a finished retriever than a meat dog any day. Not to say there is a darn thing wrong with a meat dog but it’s just darn nice to never have to leave the blind or walk your dog to the area of a fall and have them hunt the area. You can handle your dog to the bird from the front of your blind.

I don’t do field trials but I do run hunt tests. And my current BLF is a finished dog capable of all the above. Just a joy to hunt with. And the absolute most satisfaction one gets is knowing you trained the dog to that level. Just insist on the same standard while hunting as you do while training and the transition back is nearly invisible.
G
 
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Have any of you guys that hunt pheasants with a duck dog ever hunted with a real bird dog? I know it's very common these days to use labs for pheasants but a good setter or pointer will run circles around a lab. My llewellin will find 10 birds to every one a lab finds. No offense I love all sporting dogs. But they call them bird dogs for a reason
 
Quickdraw

"I know it's very common these days to use labs for pheasants" - Quickdraw. There's a multitude of reasons for that. How does your Llewellin do whilst hunting standing corn (crickets chirping). Two different breeds, two different styles of hunting. My Labs hunt upland birds and waterfowl as well, and are hunting machines. Your statement that your "Lewellin will find 10 birds to every one a Lab finds" is ludicrous and based on what? A hollow argument at best Mate.

Irishwhistler 🍀🇮🇪🇺🇸
 
Agree with Irishwhistler. That's an incredibly bold statement quickdraw. I have a very difficult time believing your Llewellin would find 10 birds to every one a quality lab finds (I have a golden but I'm guessing your opinion is the same as they are similar breeds). They simply hunt different. My buddy has a brittany that we go to SD with. Comes from top of the line blood-lines and is a hunting machine. Had 2 separate occasions where he hit a cripple and couldn't find them last SD trip, I came over with my golden and he was able to find both birds that his brittany couldn't with my "duck dog". A simple bird down command and he quartered the brush and found both birds very much alive.

My uncle has a golden that will turn 9 this fall that he has killed north of 600 public land pheasants over hunting mostly by himself. I can't even imagine what that number would be if he were hunting with a "real" bird dog.
 
grossklw said:
Agree with Irishwhistler. That's an incredibly bold statement quickdraw. I have a very difficult time believing your Llewellin would find 10 birds to every one a quality lab finds (I have a golden but I'm guessing your opinion is the same as they are similar breeds). They simply hunt different. My buddy has a brittany that we go to SD with. Comes from top of the line blood-lines and is a hunting machine. Had 2 separate occasions where he hit a cripple and couldn't find them last SD trip, I came over with my golden and he was able to find both birds that his brittany couldn't with my "duck dog". A simple bird down command and he quartered the brush and found both birds very much alive.

My uncle has a golden that will turn 9 this fall that he has killed north of 600 public land pheasants over hunting mostly by himself. I can't even imagine what that number would be if he were hunting with a "real" bird dog.
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GROSSKLW,
Spot on Mate. Apples to oranges on face value, two entirely different breeds and hunting styles. Ye cannot really compare the two. I enjoy hunting over pointers, setters, and Labs. Each have their own strengths. Not questioning the breeds at all, more so, the experience level of Quickdraw for making such a ludicrous assumption. Certainly not a science based argument.

Irishwhistler 🍀🇮🇪🇺🇸
 
Couldn't agree more. Quality hunting dogs find birds, simple as that. I like hunting over my golden and flushers in general, he likes hunting over his pointer; we both kill a pile of birds and have a blast doing it. I'm sure she finds a few birds mine doesn't because he's working too quickly and I know he finds a few in heavier cover that she passed over because it was too thick for her to go into.
 
No questions the labs ability to find cripple and hard to find dead bird. I bam saying abird dog will find far more birds than a waterfowl dog. I hunt with friends that own labs. When was the last time a lab became the Grand national champion never. W have 500 acres near white lake sd. A couple years ago I took a little ride to check out some new area. Up near Miller I found a nice looking spot. About 10 acre low spot surrounded by cut corn. 3 guys with 3 labs were loading up the truck. They said it's a waste of time no birds in there anymore. They left. Me and my llewellin went in the cover I had my 3 in about 20 minutes. The birds were all holding tight for the point those guys walked right by them. The point is you will see a lot more game with a good bird dog. I t would be even better if you had a lab as well.
 
QuickDraw you have obviously never hunted pheasants with a good lab. I have lots of photos to back up my lab as a pheasant hunter. A lab isn’t just a waterfowl dog. A good lab is well rounded and can do it all. ‘
 
Quickdraw said:
Have any of you guys that hunt pheasants with a duck dog ever hunted with a real bird dog? I know it's very common these days to use labs for pheasants but a good setter or pointer will run circles around a lab. My llewellin will find 10 birds to every one a lab finds. No offense I love all sporting dogs. But they call them bird dogs for a reason
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A good pointer will run circles around every bird dog out there and find more birds as well. But only because of the amount of real estate being covered.
 
Quickdraw said:
No questions the labs ability to find cripple and hard to find dead bird. I bam saying abird dog will find far more birds than a waterfowl dog. I hunt with friends that own labs. When was the last time a lab became the Grand national champion never. W have 500 acres near white lake sd. A couple years ago I took a little ride to check out some new area. Up near Miller I found a nice looking spot. About 10 acre low spot surrounded by cut corn. 3 guys with 3 labs were loading up the truck. They said it's a waste of time no birds in there anymore. They left. Me and my llewellin went in the cover I had my 3 in about 20 minutes. The birds were all holding tight for the point those guys walked right by them. The point is you will see a lot more game with a good bird dog. I t would be even better if you had a lab as well.
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Seriously? You are going to argue your assertion on the abilities of Labrador Retrievers as an entire breed comparative to Llewellins based on a three dog anecdotal accounting as assessed by yourself. Seems less than an objective study. Way less than scientific to reasonably reach any such conclusion. What were the ability levels of the 3 Labradors in your sampling? Were they titled dogs trained and handled by pro's or advanced amateurs? Were they out of great bloodlines or backyard breedings of unknown genetics? If they had titles, which titles and at what levels? And the same questions would need to be applied to your comparative Lliewellins and the sample would need to be far more than one dog. Two different breeds, two entirely different hunting styles. Put your Llewellins on a hunt in high standing cover or corn and make your comparison of the two breeds or flushers vs. pointing dogs. Your question regarding "when was the last time a Labrador became a Grand National Champion" is nonsensical. Which championships are you referencing? You do realize that the two breeds mention are worked in entirely different hunt test and field trial games and for good reason they are type specific? What is your experience level as a trainer / handler to be making this generalization regarding an two entire and very different breeds? Lastly what is the registered name of your Llewellin and what titles does it hold? Trained by you or a known pro?

THE DOG WHISTLER 🍀🇮🇪🇺🇸
 
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