TSS Pass-through

[A5 Sweet 16]

So a couple of us got sidetracked, as usual, & started discussing TSS in one of the bismuth threads. KEOutdoors, who has some experience with TSS, says most, if not all, TSS pellets should pass through a bird shot under 60 yds. I THINK he was generalizing, but could've been talking about a particular goose load that uses 7s &/or 8s. I'm not entirely sure.

But regardless, I was talking to a guy last night who, it turns out, has shot a fair number of pheasants with #9 TSS. After doing so, he's not a fan, because he says each bird ends up with quite a few pellets in it. He says the #9s cause very little bleeding & don't drag feathers into the bird, so they're hard to see when cutting up the meat in preparation for cooking. He said in the birds he's eaten, they've probably found (with their teeth!) about 15 pellets PER BIRD, just in the breast & thigh meat.

I really don't know how similar a pheasant body is to 10% ballistic gel, but let's assume they're fairly similar. I'm guessing the average pellet needs to pass through about 3" of body (gel) to pass completely through a pheasant. If I'm anywhere close with that guess, & KPY Shotshell Ballistics is fairly accurate, then most #9 TSS will only pass through the body of a pheasant out to roughly 20 yds. They'll only pass through 1.5-1.75 inches at 60 yds. Again, I'm just playing around with the program & have only a vague notion that I'm on track with my assumptions.

Any of you others who've used TSS....what has been your experience with pellets in your meat?

 

[Chestle]

Sounds like a great choice for those of us who are older and are going to need some tooth crowns soon anyway.

 

[hyresmack]

a mind numming post, not going to say your not pretty smart with hunting phez. But man you think hard about this stuff.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Assuming that's directed at me...maybe. A bit. But what else do I really have to think about?

 

[Golden Hour]

a mind numming post, not going to say your not pretty smart with hunting phez. But man you think hard about this stuff.

A5 is pretty much a pheasant philosopher.

I have had a similar experience with TSS not passing through and lots of pepper sized tungsten chunks in the meat. Of course, I can't always connect the exact bird on the plate with the situation in the field, but I'm pretty confident I didn't shoot any pheasants with TSS beyond 60 yards. Most would have been in the 30/40 yard range.

 

[Bob Peters]

Come on hyresmack, you know these musings deep in the weeds are allowed when it's the offseason! If it was posted on a Saturday in November during the golden hour, then we could all pile on.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Come on hyresmack, you know these musings deep in the weeds are allowed when it's the offseason! If it was posted on a Saturday in November during the golden hour, then we could all pile on.

Why Bob? I'm usually home with my limit hanging in the garage by that time, with nothing but time on my hands.

 

[mutthunt]

My info is completely anecdotal, but for my 28ga loads it feel like I get mostly pass throughs. My shots are almost always less than 40 yards though, and most under 30 (I train good pointers cuz my shooting sucks).

I HAVE seen pinprick holes through the bones of wings and legs, which is a downside of TSS. I can't imagine if feels good, but its probably easier to fly and run with a hole in a bone vs a complete break.

 

[BritChaser]

Assuming that's directed at me...maybe. A bit. But what else do I really have to think about?

And you look smart too!

 

[KEOutdoors]

Penetration is penetration, be it lead steel or tungsten. Tss at 1500fps 9 penetrates the same as lead #2 at 1200fps. The difference is lead cuts and drags feathers too which will reduce the lead shot's real world penetration on a bird, tungsten goes right through feathers because of its small surface area and inability to deform. We use gel penetration as gauge to compare different shells. Do you like lead 5s? Lead 5s will penetrate the same amount at 25 yards as tss 9 will at 50. Saying a tss 9 will only go through a pheasant at 20 yards is assinine, if that is the case then lead 5s will only go through a bird at 5 yards.

Your buddy has some very bad shells, is taking shots way way longer than he thinks, or is feeding you a load. Im guessing the middle one with a little bit of the latter.

A mallard duck is way more difficult to penetrate through than a pheasant (thicker down, thicker skin, same breast thickness but tougher meat, same bone structure, but bigger) and tss 9 will go clean through at 40-50 yards. In fact most guys use 1.25" penetration for lethality on a rooster vs 1.5" on a mallard and 2" on a goose. Tss 7 will go clean through the body of a giant canada goose at 50 yards.

 

[gimruis]

I used TSS for spring turkey hunting the past 2 years. May or may not be relevant to this converstion so take it with a grain of salt. You don't shoot turkeys in the body, you shoot them in the head/neck.

I bought the box of 5 because it was all they had. I've harvested a nice tom each year using it but both were within 25 yards. I am of the perception that ANY turkey load in a 12 gauge would be lethal at that range if you hit the target. I did shoot a round before the season at 50 yards and there were enough pellets at that range using a full choke for me to take a shot with. It just hasn't happened yet. I've got 2 rounds of it left.

When I'm done with these 2 rounds, I'm going back to Winchester Longbeard XR. The cost of TSS is too much for me and my range with Longbeard XR is adequate out to 60 yards for spring turkey hunting.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Penetration is penetration, be it lead steel or tungsten. Tss at 1500fps 9 penetrates the same as lead #2 at 1200fps. The difference is lead cuts and drags feathers too which will reduce the lead shot's real world penetration on a bird, tungsten goes right through feathers because of its small surface area and inability to deform. We use gel penetration as gauge to compare different shells. Do you like lead 5s? Lead 5s will penetrate the same amount at 25 yards as tss 9 will at 50. Saying a tss 9 will only go through a pheasant at 20 yards is assinine, if that is the case then lead 5s will only go through a bird at 5 yards.

Your buddy has some very bad shells, is taking shots way way longer than he thinks, or is feeding you a load. Im guessing the middle one with a little bit of the latter.

A mallard duck is way more difficult to penetrate through than a pheasant (thicker down, thicker skin, same breast thickness but tougher meat, same bone structure, but bigger) and tss 9 will go clean through at 40-50 yards. In fact most guys use 1.25" penetration for lethality on a rooster vs 1.5" on a mallard and 2" on a goose. Tss 7 will go clean through the body of a giant canada goose at 50 yards.

What about Golden Hour? When he says he's got many TSS #9s in the meat in birds shot at 30-40 yds, I KNOW he knows what he's talking about. Ballistics programs are great. I really enjoy & appreciate them. But math/physics calcs don't always describe reality accurately. I'm thinking if a TSS #9 at 1300 fps muzzle velocity contacts only feathers & flesh at 40 yds, maybe it acts like the software says & blows through. But if it hits a bone or anything else, which would be preferable to just zinging through flesh, much of its energy is lost & has a high likelihood of remaining in the bird. I mean one #9 TSS at 1300 ought to act pretty much just like the next. Just depends what it contacts downrange.

 

[hyresmack]

So we have 2 people say they experienced lots of tss BBs in meat & 1 guy say he seen them go through bones without breaking them. And only 1 tss salesman saying they shatter bones & don't get stuck in meat. So far the poll is 3/4 bad 1/4 good. I don't have time for a BB that won't break a bone when it hits irregardless how big it is, or expensive.

 

[Bob Peters]

Yeah some of these gun cranks that shoot the pattern board a million times have a hard time translating the gun range into real life hunting situations. They're both important, but one not more than another.

 

[mutthunt]

Sorry, for the record, the vast majority of phez I shot with TSS are Stone Cold dead. For small bore and non-tox, it's as good as it gets.

Effin expensive though.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Sorry, for the record, the vast majority of phez I shot with TSS are Stone Cold dead. For small bore and non-tox, it's as good as it gets.

Effin expensive though.

What are the specs on your loads? If you had to guess, how many pellets are stuck in your average bird?

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

Penetration is penetration, be it lead steel or tungsten. Tss at 1500fps 9 penetrates the same as lead #2 at 1200fps.

KEO, are you actually loading TSS that fast? My understanding, at least when it first came out, was that the beauty of TSS was that because of its density, super soft shooting loads (well under an ounce & 1100-1200 fps) were possible, permitting small bore guns to take larger birds with almost no recoil. Slower speeds also helped attain more consistent patterns that were easier to tweak by varying shot cups, chokes, etc. Are you upping velocity in order to cycle autoloaders? Or to minimize pellet drop? Or what?

 

[mutthunt]

What are the specs on your loads? If you had to guess, how many pellets are stuck in your average bird?

My load is a duplex of steel and TSS. 90% of stuck BBs are steel. I can probably count on two hands the number of TSS I've found in the breast and legs. But like I've said, my shots are closer than what was originally being discussed.

My load was given to me by Hawglips on duckhutningchat. He supplied me with the TSS and will share his loads if you buy from him.

Mine was 1/4oz TSS 9.5s and 9/16oz steel 4s. 1291fps and 12060psi in 28ga.

 

[A5 Sweet 16]

My load is a duplex of steel and TSS. 90% of stuck BBs are steel. I can probably count on two hands the number of TSS I've found in the breast and legs. But like I've said, my shots are closer than what was originally being discussed.

My load was given to me by Hawglips on duckhutningchat. He supplied me with the TSS and will share his loads if you buy from him.

Mine was 1/4oz TSS 9.5s and 9/16oz steel 4s. 1291fps and 12060psi in 28ga.

Out of curiosity, what do you feel you gain from the steel, other than lower cost? Why not go with 1/2 oz TSS? Can you load it that light in a 28?

 

[mutthunt]

Out of curiosity, what do you feel you gain from the steel, other than lower cost? Why not go with 1/2 oz TSS? Can you load it that light in a 28?

Purely cost. By my breakdown when I bought all my components, that load costs me $1.24 per shell using brand new primed shells. The TSS component is $0.89 and the steel is $0.06. So if I went with a 1/2 ounce of TSS my shells would dang near double in price. I was pretty happy with my pattern using a IC and cylinder choke.

I would have to find load data for a very different wad, as a 1/2 ounce of TSS doesn't take up much space.