Too much obedience a bad thing?

c_d

c_d

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Just curious if you can ever have too much obedience affect bird dog training performance? We're doing a series of 'puppy classes' (5mo springer) with a local trainer (non hunt training, just obedience) and it got me thinking of things that could translate negatively to the field. I've already opted to not do a few things he suggested (noise can shakers to deter for example), but wondering if there are any big things I should be looking out for?

any help is great. thanks. I know some guys don't care much for tricks like 'shake', or have a need for 'lay down', etc.. but figure if she can pick all this stuff up easy, and seems to be birdy, she should just make for a good, biddable dog in the field. i hope so at least.
 
I have seen puppies that were started on obedience at your pups age. They were burned out on training before a year old. Basic obedience done very moderately and slowly is the best. Let them be a puppy, get a good bond with the dog and just let things go on a nice easy keel. They will pick things up as you go for walks/runs etc. The only one that is a must at your dogs age is come/here..........Bob
 
I'm on another gun dog site and was just abused fairly badly by suggesting that a pointing dog that learns some obedience, specifically "sit", wasn't at all a bad thing. The FT guys were highly offended that their dogs learn obedience, saying that it would ruin their style, boldness, and independence. I'm more of a meat hunter, and new to pointers, though not to dogs or training. I certainly do appreciate and strive for a well trained bird dog, and readily admit that OVERDOING any single aspect of training could be detrimental. I'm also the kind of guy whose kids behave in a restaurant and I don't like watching other people's kids throw tantrums and run wild while mine sit and behave. Having said that, the notion that a dog who is PROPERLY trained to sit will sit later, when on point is pure poppycock IMO. I know that some dogs do develop a "sit under pressure" issue later on, but I and others know of dogs who were never taught obedience who had the same issue. Bottom line, it's your dog, train it the way you want it to turn out.
 
thanks for the tips. I really appreciate it. I would hate to go down a direction that will hinder her performance down the road.

the reasons I've decided to focus initially on the obedience side are two fold: 1) my wife has never owned a dog before, and it's been a while for me. I figure this'll help us both be on the same page and consistent. We talk regularly about what we'll do and not do(training wise) based on her being a bird dog. Plus, 90% of the time, she'll(puppy) be a house pet. 2) Since my wife works in senior care, we thought eventually it would be cool if she can take the pup to work and perhaps become a 'therapy dog'. and/or if she is a 'therapy dog', there shouldn't be any issues of the wife having the pup in her office during the day while she's working.

Maybe I'm expecting too much of the pup to be good at too many things? I dunno. but realistically, the pup will spend more time at home than in the field. Though I'd love to hunt with her as much as possible, that's for sure. I can't wait.
 
c d, I would have to agree in part to what bobeyerite said. Your pup is still pretty young so as far as obedience I would only concentrate on the basics like come, sit, stay and heel. You can teach more as the dog gets a little older. But in general, I don't know if you can teach enough obedience. Of course there are things in a class that you may never have a use for. But an obedient dog in the field is a much nicer dog to hunt with. You need to be in control. I hunted one day this year with a guy and his two sons from Colorado. They were running 3 English Pointers. They had absolutely no control over any of the dogs in the field. It was like a circus act. Dogs running out of control and guys yelling and blowing whistles to no avail. Then one dog took off after a jack rabbit and we didn't see it for an hour. I took my 2 Brittanys and headed to another quarter in the section to get as far away as I could. A good hunting dog is an obedient dog.
 
George I agree, I do demand of my dogs INSTANT OBEDIENCE. I can remember by the time I got Tony to when it was instant he was over a year old. He had 1 season in the field hunting pheasant. He wore an e-collar but I never used it and I never will on a dog hunting birds. Only he don't know that. Dogs have been known to quit hunting when hit with an e-collar........Bob
 
Daniel, I train my dog to sit. The main reason is in the fields out here we have cheet grass and wild oats they both have seeds. Those seeds get into the dogs eyes and ears. I want my dog sitting quietly while I check him for the seeds and take them out with a Q-Tip if possible. I have never had a problem with him wanting to sit while pointing. He wants to be right there for the flush and takes off with the shot for the retrieve.........Bob
 
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Dakotazeb said:
c d, I would have to agree in part to what bobeyerite said. Your pup is still pretty young so as far as obedience I would only concentrate on the basics like come, sit, stay and heel. You can teach more as the dog gets a little older. But in general, I don't know if you can teach enough obedience. Of course there are things in a class that you may never have a use for. But an obedient dog in the field is a much nicer dog to hunt with. You need to be in control. I hunted one day this year with a guy and his two sons from Colorado. They were running 3 English Pointers. They had absolutely no control over any of the dogs in the field. It was like a circus act. Dogs running out of control and guys yelling and blowing whistles to no avail. Then one dog took off after a jack rabbit and we didn't see it for an hour. I took my 2 Brittanys and headed to another quarter in the section to get as far away as I could. A good hunting dog is an obedient dog.
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Those are exactly the things we're working on actually. I am not looking for a robot dog, but I do hope to be the one in control in the home and field. Too many times at our local preserve I've heard the same just like your story â??*guys yelling names over and over, whistles etc... I'm trying to work her slow and steady so I don't become that guy
 
I think the biggest thing with obedience "training" if you will, is just acquiring that bond with your dog. It sounds like your dog is inside dog. Both my germans stay inside as well, and the biggest key for me and my wife is to have our dogs mind. We enjoy it when people come to our house and are taken back at how well our dogs mind.

Come, or here, whatever you use is of the utmost importance, but things like this can be done without formal training. What I mean is you will learn to incorporate commands you want the dog to know, into everyday activities. Even if it is just doing chores around the house.

Example: both of my dogs have learned to come into our laundry room and sit, while I change the clothes over. I have taught them to sit and stay, while doing things like that. Same goes while I do dishes. I think doing things like this translate well to the field, and I have found that the pup feels little or no pressure when you do this. Not only does the pup know what you expect, but they know that they are making you happy. I always talk my dogs up when they are watching me do the laundry. I think they enjoy it. In fact, I should video tape it because now that I think of it, it is quite comical to turn around and both dogs are watching your every move.

I use "come" as often as I can while I am in the backyard or in the basement doing different things. My youngest dog (4 mos.) already understands the command because I use it so often. I guess it really depends on the level of hunting dog you want. For me, I want a good partner, who enjoys to hunt, and does it well. I dont need a field trial dog to hunt pheasants. My dogs are pets first, and hunters...well...1.a.

Just my thoughts.
 
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