Swith Grass for Ethanol

mnmthunting

mnmthunting

Banned
Switch Grass that is.

Not likely to replace much corn ground. More likely highly erodible areas, low ground, pasture land, rocky land and basically another loss of wild life habitat.

Switch grass will be harvested at the optimum time for quality and quantity. Like all grasses that will be just as it goes to seed. Grass looses quality fast after seeding. And will be cut as short as possible to get the quantity.

Warm season grasses that have been cut [short stubble] has little value for nesting game birds. Where last years plant growth is intact, makes excellent game bird nesting and brood rearing habitat. The new growth in stubble is to late to provide cover for nesting gamebirds.

This is what I see.
Little or no nesting value for game birds. New growth is to late for nesting gamebirds.
Good brood rearing for those game birds that have nested successfully in other areas.
3-4 inch stubble has no cover value and no hunting value.
No over Winter value to game birds.
No Spring habitat value.

On the plus side.
Better then black fields. [slightly]
Minimizes erosion. [not as good as grassland left alone]
Fields of Switchgrass looks nice for about 6 weeks.The Only time it is usable to wildlife.

As hunters we don't need Switch Grass for ethanol!
 
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Heck with all that, They have the technology to use hydrogen and electric cars, yes cars that run on water, or a battery:thumbsup:. Why not that?. Because of big oil, and pay offs, thats why.
 
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Biomass of various types, and the projects, has taken a hit from the Marcellus/Utica.

Big Oil reacts no differently than Big Biomass would...or Big Labor or Big Whatever.

Switch, from what I have seen needs cut/burnt more....it gets far too dense too quickly.
 
FCSpringer said:
Heck with all that, They have the technology to use hydrogen and electric cars, yes cars that run on water, or a battery:thumbsup:. Why not that?. Because of big oil, and pay offs, thats why.
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With the electricity coming from Coal? I'm good with coal cars but it would take around 25 pounds of coal to get the work out of a car than you'd get from burning a gallon of gas in a conventional engine.
 
Big article on line about power plants making a conversion away from coal to natural gas. Nazi's got all there was out of coal gasification. Horrendously expensive. Switchgrass just another trail down the rabbit hole. Makes me think that we could burn buffalo chips, but we killed them off in the 1870's. To make room for a less efficient and higher maintenence critter, guess we could burn cow chips for electricity, talk about biomass, though air quality might suffer!
 
mnmthunting said:
Warm season grasses that have been cut [short stubble] has little value for nesting game birds. Where last years plant growth is intact, makes excellent game bird nesting and brood rearing habitat. The new growth in stubble is to late to provide cover for nesting gamebirds.
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I know there's difference in latitude between many of us, but my impression is that for 2nd or 3rd nesting attempts it just might be good enough, which sounds great to me.
 
1GB said:
I know there's difference in latitude between many of us, but my impression is that for 2nd or 3rd nesting attempts it just might be good enough, which sounds great to me.
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We all should know that pheasants will raise ONE BROOD per year. If the nest is destroyed before the hatch for whatever reason, the hen will likely in a week or so develop and start a new clutch of eggs. Yes, by this time the Switch might be usable but then the harvest while the hen is on the nest or young chicks, either way it's lost.
 
FCSpringer said:
Just think of all the CRP we could have with out as much corn, gas, and oil. Electric and hydrogen baby.:thumbsup: Write your congressmen today.:D Even if it were just are cars and pick ups.
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From what I understand, we had that tech. many decades ago. There's also tech out there that uses energy produced from our brakes to power help power vehicles.

As for our homes, there's plenty videos on youtube with inventions of "self generating" energy devises. Saw one rickety devise a guy invented in his attic. The dang thing powered 12 100-watt light bulbs with consistent energy.

Supposedly the fed's won't let the patents on such inventions go through. It wouldn't surprise me.
 
OldDublin said:
Biomass of various types, and the projects, has taken a hit from the Marcellus/Utica.

Big Oil reacts no differently than Big Biomass would...or Big Labor or Big Whatever.

Switch, from what I have seen needs cut/burnt more....it gets far too dense too quickly.
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Hard to imagine grass to thick for pheasants?
Young pheasant chicks are very good at going around, over or through the thick stuff.
Thatch is a must for chicks avoiding predation. Old growth grass is like a tent during bad, wet weather. Windchill, sleet, cold rain will all take a toll on pheasant chicks. Burned or cut grasslands provide little or no cover.
Burning or mowing grasslands is NOT Pheasant friendly.
 
mnmthunting said:
Hard to imagine grass to thick for pheasants?
Young pheasant chicks are very good at going around, over or through the thick stuff.
Thatch is a must for chicks avoiding predation. Old growth grass is like a tent during bad, wet weather. Windchill, sleet, cold rain will all take a toll on pheasant chicks. Burned or cut grasslands provide little or no cover.
Burning or mowing grasslands is NOT Pheasant friendly.
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You would think so, but over grown grasses are too thick for small chicks to maneuver through. They end up caught up and stranded.

We have a huge issue with this here in IL. I will be addressing at our PF state meeting this weekend. Too many acres of grasslands (particularly Reed Canary Grass) are so over grown the are deemed 100% worthless to nesting hens.

Burning is a must after so many years of overgrowth. After the second year of growth (after a burn) there's residual grasses for nest making once again.
 
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You have to wonder why the "soil bank" era and then the CRP era had such tremendous pheasant production.
10 year old grasslands, never cut, never burned but still produced pheasants by the million.
Can't buy the needs to be "cut/burned" nonsense. :)

Chicks NUST have the shelter from old growth grass during bad weather and there is plenty of bad Spring weather in Pheasant country.

Predators have a hard time in thick grass not pheasants.
 
mnmthunting said:
You have to wonder why the "soil bank" era and then the CRP era had such tremendous pheasant production.
10 year old grasslands, never cut, never burned but still produced pheasants by the million.
Can't buy the needs to be "cut/burned" nonsense. :)

Chicks NUST have the shelter from old growth grass during bad weather and there is plenty of bad Spring weather in Pheasant country.

Predators have a hard time in thick grass not pheasants.
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Take into consideration back then there were more cattle grazing on grasses, plenty of hay fields (that were cut each year), and many fields consisted of brome and warm season grasses like switch grass were unheard of. There wasn't a need to burn.

Switch grass can get so thick it's hard for us to walk through it let alone small pheasant chicks. As for Reed Cannery grass, cattle were getting stuck in fields too over grown.

A few years of over growth is very good for nesting for reasons you mentioned. But too many years of it is no good. Chicks hatch and are literally stranded with no way out.;)
 
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I'm talking about Soil Bank and CRP. These are NOT grazed, sometimes cut on years of drought. When cut, fields were of no value for Fall and Winter habitat. No value for Spring nesting.
NEVER!! burned those guys out there are scared to death of wild fire.:thumbsup: So even after the "Winter from Hello" last year we still found limits of wild birds. Old grass that hasn't been cut or burned for at least 10 years. Go figure.

I'm talking the Dakotas and Eastern MT. Sounds like there are a lot of problems as far as pheasant production East.:( Sure hope you guys get it figured out.

Pheasant habitat is not burned or cut where I'm familiar with. It would be safe to say there are more birds on a average year in 1 county in pheasant country then the entire state of Illinois.
 
Big difference I see between CRP and the old soil bank, is CRP was largely planted to monoculture grass, where as soil bank acres were just allowed to grow up in a variety of weeds, forbs, and grasses. CRP rapidly becomes to much of a good thing. Where as the soil bank acres maintained vitality and productiveness for 20 years or more, the CRP gets root bound and useless for gamebirds after an initial boost. I realize things are different in drier areas of the west, where moisture, limits the growth. The real answer is both burning and old growth. The old growth necessary for escape cover, and winter survival, the burned acreage necessary for nesting and brood rearing. What we don't need is a completely burned moonscape, or miles of tangled jungle growth. About a third of each, with some decent stubble and woody/ brushy corners to round it out would do nicely.
 
oldandnew said:
The old growth necessary for escape cover, and winter survival, the burned acreage necessary for nesting and brood rearing. What we don't need is a completely burned moonscape, or miles of tangled jungle growth. About a third of each, with some decent stubble and woody/ brushy corners to round it out would do nicely.
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Precisely. A multi culture of habitats is needed within a 1 square mile radius for birds to thrive. When burning, one section is burned, others are left for other years to come. This keep a balance between quality nesting cover, wintering cover, good roosting cover, etc.
 
mnmthunting said:
It would be safe to say there are more birds on a average year in 1 county in pheasant country then the entire state of Illinois.
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Rub it in why don't you. That's low man. Real low. :D LoL
 
I'm talking areas I'm familiar with, Western Dakotas and Eastern MT. World of difference from say the Red River Valley in Eastern ND and Western MN. Grass certainly gets very heavy there. Then again there's little chance for any number of pheasants anyway. :(

That CRP out West and there was Millions of acres of it, was planted in what ever perennials were available and at what cost. Most WSG were not available or expensive. So not widely used or just a small part of the mixture. Lots of Alfalfa seed grown in MT. Alfalfa was always part of the mixture. Smooth Brome seed is plentiful so it's used. Western Wheat Grass [Blue Joint] common cool season is almost always used. Sweet Clover is common. You see a little Side Oats and Blue Gramma in some fields. Switch Grass and Blue Stems are very rare. Oh yeah! lots of weeds.

Sometimes cut when allowed during drought conditions, rendering it useless for pheasants. None burned, never seen it. If it is you can be sure it's wild fire.

Spot burning should be OK as long as there's adequate nesting and brood rearing habitat. If old growth grass is flat it's almost as useless as stubble, so why not burn? Most of the time in old growth there is still good cover and tenting for nesting and shelter for young birds.

Remember:) it's fact that female game birds and chicks along with ground nesting song birds all evolved brown. Nesting in old growth grass and providing shelter and cover from predators in the brown surroundings. If it were better to use the green cover no doubt birds would have evolved green.:cheers:
 
1pheas4 said:
Rub it in why don't you. That's low man. Real low. :D LoL
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Yeah:eek: Sorry about that. Just trying to make a point.
Wish you all tons of good fortune with your habitat projects.:thumbsup:
 
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