Steadiness

[hunter94]

IMHO you haven't seen great dogwork until you watch a pointing dog point-creep to reposition-point again - creep to reposition and this goes on numerous times. A dog that can reposition itself and not over pressure a bird is fantastic. Dogs only get that way with experience and unfortunately most never get enough.


My buddy had a absolutely fabulous gsp that had worked thousands of wild birds. We chased that dog across a pasture on a point creep point for a 100 yards short of a mile. Another friend had driven around and was parked on the road. The bird flushed when he slammed the door of the jeep. Bird flew right across in front of him and he dropped it.
I believe if the guy and vehicle hadn't arrived we would have got that bird when it stopped in the heavier cover of the ditch.

i define great dog work in several ways. i had a wire haired vizsla who would typically point his pheasants from respectable distances of usually
15-25 yards. In CRP the birds would typically run and stop, run and stop. he would hold point until i released him to relocate the bird, point and relocate several times, until finally when released he would run 50-75 yards in a straight line following the general direction of the bird, stop and hunt back to me where I stood and watched him lock down on his bird, numerous times. His natural instincts took over as he trapped the bird between him and me, as I would walk in and flush the bird sitting on the dogs nose. A thing of beauty.
That's something you would be hard pressed to teach a dog to do, I give him all the credit.

 

[Quailnerd]

Thats exactly what I would do. Take a quail and drag it for twenty yards or so, Bring him in downwind. If he creeps down the trail and locks up when he smells the bird, I would be impressed not disappointed.

I think creeping and relocating are completely different. Creeping is a huge problem when a dog has range and hunts out of sight by my definition. I’m not starting a war of words, but that’s how I define good and bad movements on bird encounters.

 

[hunter94]

I think creeping and relocating are completely different. Creeping is a huge problem when a dog has range and hunts out of sight by my definition. I’m not starting a war of words, but that’s how I define good and bad movements on bird encounters.

exactly, 2 different actions by the dog. thank you.

 

[hunter94]

TBL hit the nail on the head. I love a creeping dog, as long as he learns when he has to stop. As far as retrieving goes, sound like force fetch or live with it.

yes, still in the 100's everyday, no rain, water restrictions

 

[remy3424]

Where are you...not in your bio...maybe just add a state, don't need a street address. Why don't members add that? Nice to know when folks post to have an idea about their conditions.

 

[Hutcho]

Where are you...not in your bio...maybe just add a state, don't need a street address. Why don't members add that? Nice to know when folks post to have an idea about their conditions.

I have my info in there. Not sure why it isn't showing.

 

[birddude]

exactly, 2 different actions by the dog. thank you.

Ok I'll give you guys this one!!

 

[remy3424]

It is there Hutcho, my neighbor to the south.

 

[Quailnerd]

Ok I'll give you guys this one!!

Birddude this is my measuring stick of a good or great bird dog in dry western climates. On one hand if your dog doesn’t relocate you will be 200 yards behind all day long, so I let my dogs relocate all on there own. But this freedom can create a creep when the dog knows the birds are there and pinned down. I live for watching a dog figure this out on there own, but step in if it’s a continuous problem.

 

[gettinbirdie]

I regard/define creeping as a bad thing. When a dog does not have the discipline or maybe the know how to stop moving forward on a stationary bird and results in bumping it.
I love and promote the concept of my dogs repositioning or “ flashpointing” ( as we call it) on a moving bird. Once that bird stops and holds tight- the dog does too. All my dogs that I’ve ever had do this. IMO this is crucial for success on wild birds. It’s super important for a “wild” bird dog to grasp this- the sooner the better. I’ve never met a wild bird that won’t run!

 

[Weimdogman]

Young pheasants make for great steady training.

 

[Hunthemup]

Quick question for you guys. First off I'm really new to training. I got my GSP last year, he's older, gonna be 7 this year but he's a good dog. He likes to creep though, not to mention he's not a fan of retrieving, but that's a subject for a different day. Anyways. From what I've read and researched I feel like a bunch of birds and a launcher is gonna be my solution to helping him be steadier. I text a buddy the other day that trains for a living and he said they have launchers but never use them, just crack the dog in the head with the gun barrel if he moves. Seems kinda messed up to me. Anyway, am I on the right track?

Side note. In the near future I should have a near unlimited supply of pen birds to train with. My neighbor is wanting to raise some and I'm helping get him setup.

I am not a pro trainer even after having trained 11 GSPs. Not knowing the background of your 7 yr old GSP, it would be difficult to say why the creeping. Sometimes a bird dog that has had significant amount of preserve bird hunting learn that if they move in slowly they can. This is not the case in wild birds. Pressure them and off they go. There is a difference between pressure and tracking as previously mentioned here. After a while the dogs learn not to approach to close to the wild birds. Again, at 7 yrs old I can not say what is the cause.
Now let talk about, bird launcher. Knowing what you know about your dog, here you would need to launch the birds from quite a distance once you see that he has caught sense of the bird. Do this for several sections, and then let him approach closer whether he is on point or not, then release the bird. Always work him with a check cord to reinforce the"whoa" or your command. I use "easy" as he is approaching then the "whoa"
This may take some patience on your part, again not knowing the personality of your dog.
Wild birds are often the best teacher but you can come close to simulating the action using your pen raised birds.



Note the check cord as my then 6 month was approaching the bird.I knew then by her mannerism that she was on it. Also please note the bubble on her tail. It is characteristic of some pointer to do this as they get on bird sense.