Steadiness

Hutcho

Active member
Quick question for you guys. First off I'm really new to training. I got my GSP last year, he's older, gonna be 7 this year but he's a good dog. He likes to creep though, not to mention he's not a fan of retrieving, but that's a subject for a different day. Anyways. From what I've read and researched I feel like a bunch of birds and a launcher is gonna be my solution to helping him be steadier. I text a buddy the other day that trains for a living and he said they have launchers but never use them, just crack the dog in the head with the gun barrel if he moves. Seems kinda messed up to me. Anyway, am I on the right track?

Side note. In the near future I should have a near unlimited supply of pen birds to train with. My neighbor is wanting to raise some and I'm helping get him setup.
 
I am no dog trainer, but from reading this, is your concern that the dog "creeping-up" on a located bird, not coming to a solid point and HOLDING or he is not steady to the "flush, shot, fall or release command" to retrieve the bird? Just making sure what the issue is. If it is the later, I think I would work on the retrieving skill.
 
Sorry I should be more clear. He will go on point, but once on point he wants to creep in on the birds. Haven't had an issue with him flushing them yet but I definitely want to get it fixed.

As for retrieving he couldn't care less. He just goes on to the next bird lol! Although we took him out after the last field trial and he did retrieve to hand so idk what the heck lol!
 
I'm also no dog trainer but I personally don't have a problem with my dogs creeping. Both of them do it and it hasn't cost me a bird yet. On wild birds, I like that they creep. Wild birds don't sit as tight as pen raised.

Now if you're going for a field trial type where they have to be rock solid, maybe mix in a check cord while working with him so you have control and can give a little tug on it. Bird launchers help with this as you can control the flush.

Also the "magic brush pile" drill is good for steadiness depending on how much work you've done already.

I know there's alot better dog trainers on here than me so you should get some decent advice when they see your post.
 
Maybe I'm just overreacting, or been to too many trials and got my expectations too high. May just shift gears and work on the retrieving part lol!
 
Does the dog know the "Whoa" command? I would work on "Whoa" so you can use the command when he creeps. And probably use a check cord to correct him. But if he's not busting birds and you have no intentions of field trialing him I wouldn't be too concerned with a little creeping as long as his creeping doesn't result it him flushing the bird.
 
If the dog doesn't retrieve, I sure hope he recovers the downed birds or I would say you really have some work to do.

I know nothing about field trials and really not interested it that at all. I want a dog I can control and has a few manners, that I can use it's strengths to get my limit by noon! Nothing like hunting with a dog that you understand and he understands you also. I hope to get there with my new gsp and I hope you can do the same. Good luck Hutcho! Not sure where you are from, but season will be here soon.
 
I’m not a dog trainer. Now that I have that out of the way, I suspect the point and creep point and creep dogs make the best pheasant dogs, as long as you are there with them at port arms as they’re doing it. If you want and/or have a dog that locks up on first scent and won’t move, switch over immediately to ruffed grouse hunting cuz you got yourself a grouse dog. Ruffed grouse won’t tolerate pointing and creeping. If you want a dog that is dynamite on pheasants, stick with the point and creep, cuz if he won’t move from a point until you get there, the frickin pheasant has exited stage left and is already running 200 yards down the road. My dogs don’t like retrieving either, but they are relentless, enthusiastic wounded and dead bird hunters cuz they want that bird in their mouth, even for a moment, so that is good enough for me.
 
Blue Line is spot on about a pheasant dog. AKC &NAVHDA using pen raised birds are a different story with a high prey dog- you better train to point from a little ways off.
 
As Dakotazeb has said..”whoa”! I would definitely make that command a priority this summer. The dog is pointing… reinforce the whoa command and use it when you are going to the point. Is he e collar conditioned?
Pigeons and launchers for sure in the off season. Utilize a check cord and a second e collar around the dogs belly to staunch him and hold him in place. Important to mention: is he e collar conditioned? If not- don’t do this till he is. If he is- this can be a great way to extend your off season training into real time hunting. I have a younger dog that is wearing a collar on her belly this summer and WILL be wearing it into season till she stops creeping. This is a great way to transition from the yard to the field- if the maturity levels are there( this shouldn’t be an issue for an older dog) the dog will make the connection.Too much detail to type about here but these two things along with time should work. Most of this you can do in the off season.
 
The belly band , why ? Jon Hamm from perfection kennels trains whoa with the regular collar on the neck. His point is why complicate things ? Train whoa as a obedience command in the yard , then move to the field then to birds-AFTER THE DOG HAS BEEN INTRODUCED TO BIRDS.
 
TBL hit the nail on the head. I love a creeping dog, as long as he learns when he has to stop. As far as retrieving goes, sound like force fetch or live with it.
 
how can you expect a creeping dog to stop before the bird breaks? relocating is acceptable, watching/allowing a dog to creep is a license to roading in on birds and not being steady ever, which is ok, if thats what you want. just my humble thoughts.
 
how can you expect a creeping dog to stop before the bird breaks? relocating is acceptable, watching/allowing a dog to creep is a license to roading in on birds and not being steady ever, which is ok, if thats what you want. just my humble thoughts.
Hey, 94, are you guys down there in a drought also? And yes, you are correct about that. I should have been a little clearer. The type of creeping I was referring to; I think is a natural ability to sense moving birds and cat creep ahead of you until they get enough sent to trigger the point. I've had two dogs who were very good at it. one was a shorthair who was the best phez dog I will ever see. The other was a setter of unknown origins and might have been part irish setter as he was dark liver ticked. I could also tell if he was pointing a single quail or a covey by how staunch he was. The shorthair would creep like a cat. Low and slow. The setter stood tall and would walk ahead slow with a low waging tail.
 
IMHO you haven't seen great dogwork until you watch a pointing dog point-creep to reposition-point again - creep to reposition and this goes on numerous times. A dog that can reposition itself and not over pressure a bird is fantastic. Dogs only get that way with experience and unfortunately most never get enough.


My buddy had a absolutely fabulous gsp that had worked thousands of wild birds. We chased that dog across a pasture on a point creep point for a 100 yards short of a mile. Another friend had driven around and was parked on the road. The bird flushed when he slammed the door of the jeep. Bird flew right across in front of him and he dropped it.
I believe if the guy and vehicle hadn't arrived we would have got that bird when it stopped in the heavier cover of the ditch.
 
Is your neighbor raising coternix?
No gonna be raising bobwhites. I'm helping him get the coop/flight pen build so he can get the permit finished up. I got my dog training area permit so I'm legal to transport and all that good stuff. I think he may do some Phez or chukkar too all I gotta do is ask lol!
 
So I guess what I thought was an issue is not actually an issue. He doesn't bust birds(what few we see) just a little creeping. After hearing your description of the cat creep it sounds a lot like that. We haven't got on a ton of birds since I've had him so maybe he will try to bust them, but I have yet to see it. For those that asked about woah broke, he does know that one. We just need to reinforce it a little more. Collar conditioned also, usually can get him to straighten up or whatever I need with just the tone. I think considering how many seasons he's got left in him I'm just gonna hunt him like he is and just let him enjoy it. Hopefully I can do my part and get us to areas that have birds for him to find.
 
So I guess what I thought was an issue is not actually an issue. He doesn't bust birds(what few we see) just a little creeping. After hearing your description of the cat creep it sounds a lot like that. We haven't got on a ton of birds since I've had him so maybe he will try to bust them, but I have yet to see it. For those that asked about woah broke, he does know that one. We just need to reinforce it a little more. Collar conditioned also, usually can get him to straighten up or whatever I need with just the tone. I think considering how many seasons he's got left in him I'm just gonna hunt him like he is and just let him enjoy it. Hopefully I can do my part and get us to areas that have birds for him to find.
Thats exactly what I would do. Take a quail and drag it for twenty yards or so, Bring him in downwind. If he creeps down the trail and locks up when he smells the bird, I would be impressed not disappointed.
 
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