I've been looking at llewellin setters for a close working pheasant dog. I've had a few people suggest looking at a springer also. I've always had pointing dogs in the past and all my buddies have shorthairs now. I'm just curious if anyone hunts pointers and flushers together at the same time. Would me hunting a springer mess up the hunt for my friends and their pointing dogs? What's everyone's take on this?
Springer Question
- Thread starter slayerrd
- Start date
Roaniecowpony
Member
In general, it's a bad idea to hunt a pointing dog with a flusher. The flusher will get to charge in on the point. The pointer will want to break point when this happens.
There are exceptions. A guy that trains often to keep the dogs sharp can keep control of the two dogs. I've also watched a brace of pointers, where one dog will get sent to flush while the other holds point. But that's with dogs that are highly tuned.
If you're a prolific trainer, it's not out of the question. So, yeah, owners of other pointing dogs will likely be unhappy with a flusher on the ground at the same time.
There are exceptions. A guy that trains often to keep the dogs sharp can keep control of the two dogs. I've also watched a brace of pointers, where one dog will get sent to flush while the other holds point. But that's with dogs that are highly tuned.
If you're a prolific trainer, it's not out of the question. So, yeah, owners of other pointing dogs will likely be unhappy with a flusher on the ground at the same time.
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FCSpringer
Moderator
I wouldn't worry about your Pals. Get what dog you want. Chances are if you have a real nice ESS you may just convert them over LOL. It has happened to guys I know many times. Its hard to beat a good field bred ESS as a blue collar work horse hunting dog. And unless your hunting 3 feet from your pal you should have 0 issue. We go on trips all the time with labs, pointy things, springers etc. We just cover our own beats that's all. If any one dog has been the one to "interfere" with another person, it has been the pointers. Simply because they have been 300 yards away from the handler all the time. Often getting a point, while spooking every other bird out of the field in the process. That's the reason I got rid of my short hairs. Birds many times will volunteer when they hear something. And well many times the dog running through cover will do. When this is 200 yards away what good does it do?. ESS's are trained to operate "for you" "within gun range". So even if your dogs not flushing the bird, and it volunteers, you still have opportunity. Just my 2 cents, from someone who loved both but settled on one. And Like I said, if your not walking next to your pal, arguing who shot what. You will have no issue what so ever. Been there, done that. In addition, you have a strong retriever in an ESS as well. Something that is well known to be lacking in many pointing breeds without force training.
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Dakotazeb
Well-known member
I've had Brittanys for the past 20 years. Prior to that a few Springers and a Lab. As for hunting pointing and flushing dogs together I do it all the time and never have a problem. I do try and not work the dogs too close to one another in the same field. There is always a chance of the flusher moving in the the point and flushing the bird which can cause unsteadiness in the pointer. But it's never been an issue for me.
I love Springers and I hear what FCSpringer said in his post. However, I converted the other direction and now could never go back to a flusher. Sorry FC.
If you stay with a pointing dog you might also take a look at a Brittany. If you want any info on Britts send me a PM.
If you do go with a Springer I would suggest getting one from FCSpringer as he has some of the best field Springers in the country.
I love Springers and I hear what FCSpringer said in his post. However, I converted the other direction and now could never go back to a flusher. Sorry FC.
If you stay with a pointing dog you might also take a look at a Brittany. If you want any info on Britts send me a PM.
If you do go with a Springer I would suggest getting one from FCSpringer as he has some of the best field Springers in the country.
FCSpringer
Moderator
Zeb we need to get together this year, maybe after the NAC. You bring them pointy ones and I will bring the bread winners.:cheers:.
Just kidding. But in a forum, you will get a zillion answers. You will never hear me say my dogs are better or the best. I would recommend you go to some places and see, touch and feel the car before you buy so to speak. If a pointer is what you have your mind set on. I would look at dogs that run "foot hunting" style trials, where retrieving is a must.
If I had to design a perfect pointer in my mind it would be a springer with a bad flush.:thumbsup:
:cheers:. Just kidding. But in a forum, you will get a zillion answers. You will never hear me say my dogs are better or the best. I would recommend you go to some places and see, touch and feel the car before you buy so to speak. If a pointer is what you have your mind set on. I would look at dogs that run "foot hunting" style trials, where retrieving is a must.
If I had to design a perfect pointer in my mind it would be a springer with a bad flush.:thumbsup:
UplandHntr
Well-known member
I think your buddies would screw up the hunt for you!!!! Not the other way around! take that!!
Not the other way around! take that!!I think your buddies would screw up the hunt for you!!!!
Some things just don't need to be said out loud!
FLDBRED
Well-known member
Well my take on it is if your looking for a first class pheasant dog a Springer is as good as it gets bar none!
A well trained Springer will hunt in YOUR zone, it's more likely that the pointers will over run your space.
The only drawback to owning a good Springer is that it's the only breed you'll want from there on!
Dakotazeb
Well-known member
Zeb we need to get together this year, maybe after the NAC. You bring them pointy ones and I will bring the bread winners.
You're on! Elle will demonstrate how a pointy dog can be a first class pheasant dog. I have my MN license so you pick the time and place. I have a cousin that only lives a few miles from you that I can stay with if you want me to head in that direction.
FCSpringer
Moderator
Sounds good, I need to get my youngins out on their first wild birds. Turn them in to men for next spring.:thumbsup: Nothing makes a good dog better then a bunch of wild birds. If I would ever go back and get a pointer again, I would have to look at the britt. At least they have a springy look.
FCSpringer
Moderator
Oh this should be good. We'll have to film this one for the world to see
How exactly do you two pull a "winner" out of this? Most birds put up, most successful retrieves
Also, will this be over wild birds or pen raised birds?
Nick
The winners will be both of us for enjoying a days hunt LOL. Its not a competition. Besides I will be hunting mostly this fall with pups with 0 experience yet on wild birds. When I buy a license to hunt, there is no pen birds in the equation.
To the OP there are some guys here with nice setters you can talk to as well. Good luck in your search.:thumbsup:
FLDBRED
Well-known member
Just a tidbit of what you could expect from a well bred Springer, this pup is 6 months old! No pheasant is safe when you have a good Springer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nMdnfDnyaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nMdnfDnyaY
FCSpringer
Moderator
Reading back I seen a comment about windshield wiper pattern. Well this is not the case. Some winds sure. When working in to the wind that is fine as my dog here in this video. This is directly in to the wind training, and he is about a year and a half. I had the ecollar ready but never used it. This was the first day afield in constructive training on pheasants, just after being steadied to flush wing and shot. About the only time I use a collar training. If they break out there, it is the only tool to keep them from being rewarded for bad behavior. Trials, you can not use them so, they need to be steady in training without as well.:thumbsup:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMbTjMV2_NY
That said, in the ess community we judge heavily on the 2 most important things, "use of wind, and finds". So, they had better not be doing the windshield wiper pattern under good judgment, or your toast. Good ones learn how to mix up patterns based on wind. So there is no set one pattern at all. If it is one set pattern no matter the wind. In our rule book for spaniels, it is called mechanical, and is not desired. Also training, and trials they run all out. When taking them hunting they will not do this. They pace themselves. No dog can run full speed all day. No matter the breed. The brits like a very close worker. Under foot by our terms here in the states, and not desirable. We like our dogs to be covering some real-estate. But bringing a UK line here is no issue. That's the beauty of the wonderful adaptability of the breed. And in that other video by FB, it shows a good example of the work ethic, and willingness to please the handler.:thumbsup:
That said, in the ess community we judge heavily on the 2 most important things, "use of wind, and finds". So, they had better not be doing the windshield wiper pattern under good judgment, or your toast. Good ones learn how to mix up patterns based on wind. So there is no set one pattern at all. If it is one set pattern no matter the wind. In our rule book for spaniels, it is called mechanical, and is not desired. Also training, and trials they run all out. When taking them hunting they will not do this. They pace themselves. No dog can run full speed all day. No matter the breed. The brits like a very close worker. Under foot by our terms here in the states, and not desirable. We like our dogs to be covering some real-estate. But bringing a UK line here is no issue. That's the beauty of the wonderful adaptability of the breed. And in that other video by FB, it shows a good example of the work ethic, and willingness to please the handler.:thumbsup: