Range for a Kansas Bird Dog?
- Thread starter Wingmaster
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Wingmaster
New member
BritChaser
Well-known member
Very sorry to hear about Ace. I lost a dog to heat in a vehicle too - worst day of my life.
KATroutman13
Member
That really sucks. Sorry to hear that, but there's always a lesson learned. I have Garmin Tempe sensors in my dog box in the back and if it is warm or really cold, I carry the handheld in the cab to monitor the temperature. If I am in someone else's vehicle, I use a wireless thermometer to monitor the temperature. This is also another reason I have installed blower and exhaust fans in the dog box and the topper.
Back to the original post: Range is personal preference. I find that most birds that are pointed could have been walked up by a hunter or a group of hunters. I find that most birds that get up from a dog moving through the field would have gotten up well out of range anyway. Rangy, smart dogs can help on running birds because the birds will often double back -- getting pinned between dog and hunting group.
I don't like hunting in large groups -- in fact I hate it. Mainly because there are not that many people I trust around my dogs and most of the folks there don't care about dog work, but just want to kill something. One of my absolutely favorite moments of this past weeks trip to MT was seeing a dog range out to 500 yards while standing on the top of a hill and seeing him in that wide open space, with mountains in the background slam on point. The birds held for a couple of minutes as we made our way down, but they flew when we were about 200 yards away. The dog did nothing wrong, the birds just got nervous and flew about 25 yards ahead of him. He had them nailed and that's the vision I had in my head when when I hit the pillow last night. To me, that's one of the best events of that trip -- despite many other points that dogs had birds shot over them. Why? Because this dog had worked hard to find birds all week -- but we weren't putting him down in the right spots. And he'd make those 500 yard casts all day long and finally -- one came through and I bet he'll remember it next time and continue to make those long casts.
I don't shoot my dogs mistakes -- it only rewards them for their mistakes and they will continue to make them. Instead, I correct them. I went a whole trip in Montana and about 4 weekends in Kansas correcting a dog's mistakes rather than shooting them. By the end of the year, he was mistake free and he was probably our top performing dog in MT this year.
Back to the original post: Range is personal preference. I find that most birds that are pointed could have been walked up by a hunter or a group of hunters. I find that most birds that get up from a dog moving through the field would have gotten up well out of range anyway. Rangy, smart dogs can help on running birds because the birds will often double back -- getting pinned between dog and hunting group.
I don't like hunting in large groups -- in fact I hate it. Mainly because there are not that many people I trust around my dogs and most of the folks there don't care about dog work, but just want to kill something. One of my absolutely favorite moments of this past weeks trip to MT was seeing a dog range out to 500 yards while standing on the top of a hill and seeing him in that wide open space, with mountains in the background slam on point. The birds held for a couple of minutes as we made our way down, but they flew when we were about 200 yards away. The dog did nothing wrong, the birds just got nervous and flew about 25 yards ahead of him. He had them nailed and that's the vision I had in my head when when I hit the pillow last night. To me, that's one of the best events of that trip -- despite many other points that dogs had birds shot over them. Why? Because this dog had worked hard to find birds all week -- but we weren't putting him down in the right spots. And he'd make those 500 yard casts all day long and finally -- one came through and I bet he'll remember it next time and continue to make those long casts.
I don't shoot my dogs mistakes -- it only rewards them for their mistakes and they will continue to make them. Instead, I correct them. I went a whole trip in Montana and about 4 weekends in Kansas correcting a dog's mistakes rather than shooting them. By the end of the year, he was mistake free and he was probably our top performing dog in MT this year.
Let the dog decide
I agree with Steve. I have a single 6 year old setter, and hunt alone for reasons posted here. I don't believe in shooting a bird unless it is properly pointed, solid with no creeping. I hunt for the sport of using a pointing dog on upland game. When I hunt and watch other hunters with their "pointing" dogs, I see these dogs hunting 15-20 yards in front of the hunter. A lab hunts better than that, or just use a group of people to flush the birds. A dog will learn the proper range if you don't shoot a bird that is not pointed. A mild correction for creeping or breaking will teach the dog what you want.
The dog is a hunting dog, and will learn how to bring the bird to your gun. If you shot bumped birds or birds you flush after the dog has passed, soon you will have a dog that flushes birds out of range. If you like to shoot birds when the dog bumps them, use a flushing dog. If you like to shoot birds that are pointed, use a pointing breed.
Now to the question of range. The cover and scenting conditions dictate how far a dog ranges. Good scenting conditions and thick cover and the dog will work closer. Thin cover and poor dry conditions, well the dog will run big to try and find something to smell. Let the dog figure it out. So what if the bird has moved on, you now know that there is a bird there. Get to the dog, release it to relocate it. Sometimes my dog has gone on point 5, 6, 7 times before I can get the bird to flush. A pointing dog used on pheasants has to learn to hold point, then be released to relocate.
Don't hunt with undisciplined hunters, it will ruin your pointing dog. As suggested, find someone to hunt with that took the trouble to train a pointing dog. He or she would not want you to shoot bumped birds, and anyone that has trained a pointing dog will enjoy watching you dog learn his (or her) craft.
Let the dog run, that is what they like.
Bruce
I agree with Steve. I have a single 6 year old setter, and hunt alone for reasons posted here. I don't believe in shooting a bird unless it is properly pointed, solid with no creeping. I hunt for the sport of using a pointing dog on upland game. When I hunt and watch other hunters with their "pointing" dogs, I see these dogs hunting 15-20 yards in front of the hunter. A lab hunts better than that, or just use a group of people to flush the birds. A dog will learn the proper range if you don't shoot a bird that is not pointed. A mild correction for creeping or breaking will teach the dog what you want.
The dog is a hunting dog, and will learn how to bring the bird to your gun. If you shot bumped birds or birds you flush after the dog has passed, soon you will have a dog that flushes birds out of range. If you like to shoot birds when the dog bumps them, use a flushing dog. If you like to shoot birds that are pointed, use a pointing breed.
Now to the question of range. The cover and scenting conditions dictate how far a dog ranges. Good scenting conditions and thick cover and the dog will work closer. Thin cover and poor dry conditions, well the dog will run big to try and find something to smell. Let the dog figure it out. So what if the bird has moved on, you now know that there is a bird there. Get to the dog, release it to relocate it. Sometimes my dog has gone on point 5, 6, 7 times before I can get the bird to flush. A pointing dog used on pheasants has to learn to hold point, then be released to relocate.
Don't hunt with undisciplined hunters, it will ruin your pointing dog. As suggested, find someone to hunt with that took the trouble to train a pointing dog. He or she would not want you to shoot bumped birds, and anyone that has trained a pointing dog will enjoy watching you dog learn his (or her) craft.
Let the dog run, that is what they like.
Bruce
kansasbrittany
Banned
Steve,
I just saw your post. I'm very sorry for your loss...I can only imagine how it has impacted you. Again, very, very sorry for your loss
I just saw your post. I'm very sorry for your loss...I can only imagine how it has impacted you. Again, very, very sorry for your loss
Wingmaster
New member
Sounds great, but I have been letting her release on the flush for three years, and her trainer did the same before then. I think it would be difficult to reverse it now.
The only time I ever hunt with a group is opening day. Letting a young dog learn in the field these last few years has been tough, as there just have not been very many pointing opportunities for her and the birds are VERY jumpy. I think she 's doing great, and I am going to just keep letting her do her thing and shut my mouth.
I have hunted with some pretty respected, seasoned dogs these last few years and they are having the same results with birds not holding, they just don't range as far out, so there are still shooting opportunities. I have seen Lucy go on Point with no movement 120 yards away, and before I can take 10 steps the birds are in the air. Only having this problem with Roosters it seems, Hens are sitting and so are the Quail, but rooster are not holding at all. I don't think it's her fault, and as long as she gives a good point I think I should be shooting if they flush in range.
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mustistuff
Banned
pheasants
pheasants were put on this earth to drive dogs crazy and for us to waste time talking about it. in many cases when the dog has located a pheasant, a couple of things happen, one it starts its clock as to how long it wants to put up with the dog, the other thing that is happening is the bird sees and hears all kinds of trouble everyday of its life. the pheasant in most cases can handle the dog as it knows it is there and can keep an eye on it, the problem comes in when it hears you thrashing around sounding like a freight train and mostly can't see you, therefore it is this other interference it its life that it is worried about and the best thing it know how to do is to get the hell out of there, it also knows laughingly that the dog is the one to get blamed. lighten up, have a great time with the dog and the outdoors
cheers
pheasants were put on this earth to drive dogs crazy and for us to waste time talking about it. in many cases when the dog has located a pheasant, a couple of things happen, one it starts its clock as to how long it wants to put up with the dog, the other thing that is happening is the bird sees and hears all kinds of trouble everyday of its life. the pheasant in most cases can handle the dog as it knows it is there and can keep an eye on it, the problem comes in when it hears you thrashing around sounding like a freight train and mostly can't see you, therefore it is this other interference it its life that it is worried about and the best thing it know how to do is to get the hell out of there, it also knows laughingly that the dog is the one to get blamed. lighten up, have a great time with the dog and the outdoors
cheers
SetterNut
New member
I think you are pretty much on target. No matter how good the dogs is, not all of the roosters are going to hold for point. Letting a dog go out and work birds without a lot of noise from the handler, is the way to go IMO,
I do not think its a good idea to shoot birds that are not pointed when hunting with a pointing dog. It is a good what to turn a pointing dog into a flusher.
As far as the stop to flush, if you have some pigeons and do your own training it is pretty easy to train. Its a nice feather to have in a pointing dog, but not a must.