Anyone with experience with both breeds care to compare the two? I've seen them in isolation, ad both were very good. Both have their ardent fans, so probably hard to go wrong - but it's always nice to hear of first hand experience. I have a good DD breeder locally, so that tips the scales in that direction for me simply based on convenience. Thanks for any observations you might be willing to share.
Pudelpointer and Drahthaar comparisons please
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AtTheMurph
Well-known member
I have some knowledge of both breeds, but never owned either.
A friend has had 3 Draaths and I duck hunt with them pretty frequently. I had another friend with a Pudelpointer and almost bought one myself. To me they are very similar physically. Strong dogs that like water and will point and retrieve.
The PP was more laid back and fit my style and what I want from a dog. The Draaths were/are more rough and tumble. Very small sample size but that's what I think.
A friend has had 3 Draaths and I duck hunt with them pretty frequently. I had another friend with a Pudelpointer and almost bought one myself. To me they are very similar physically. Strong dogs that like water and will point and retrieve.
The PP was more laid back and fit my style and what I want from a dog. The Draaths were/are more rough and tumble. Very small sample size but that's what I think.
carptom1
Well-known member
I would agree to the above. I have not owned a Draht but have hunted with a couple and a neighbor has one. From what I have gathered the fur drive is stronger in the Drahts and they can demand a bit more from their handlers. I have had a Pudelpointer for about a year and a half. I will say she is a very driven dog with a high motor. She is very prey driven but has figured out that we are after birds not squirrels, rabbits or mice. My wife’s cat has been a bit of an issue, but even that is getting better….for me 
Quailnerd
Well-known member
Very similar breeds in general, versatile dogs that can do it all. I’m a pp owner and friends with several breeders, so I lean that direction naturally. You have a great advantage having a local DD kennel down the road so get in the field behind his dogs if possible. The DD’s ive been around were well trained, very strong in the water, muscular squared off dogs. The pp in my experience is a smaller, leaner, more free running dog. Fur drive is strong in both but that goes with most German dogs so just be ready to deal with it. No right answer here, pick the one that suits your hunting style.
I have one of each. If you want to see them I'm the field, search MissedAgainYT on YouTube.
LINK: MissedAgainYT
Disposition: Both are exceedingly friendly, but in their own way. PP has a lab personality, has to be with you and touching and goes nuts for attention. DD is happy to just be around you. You could call her more aloof, but that isn't quite the right word. FWIW, I would leave my DD with my neices and nephews and have zero worries, she is the sweetest dog with kids and seems to know they require a softer touch. Both have a great "off-switch". Even at eight years old, the DD is the first to start playing with pups and old dogs alike. It's really funny. The PP has knocked toddlers over, but that was just because he has no sense of the space he takes up. DD tend to have better coats, PP can really be all over the place.
Training: DD was incredibly easy, she came out of the box a hunting machine. Could take pressure, and learned very fast. She was my first gundog, and she dragged me along while she got her NAVHDA VC. PP was a softer dog, took more care in training. That being said, he's a 204 UT dog, and we'll see if he gets his VC next year.
Hunt: DD is an incredibly cautious hunter. Range is dog dependent, not breed dependent, but DD is a closer worker. Her disposition in the field is all business. I truly think she wants every bird to die, and is slightly upset when we leave without getting them all. PP is a bigger running, flashier dog. His points regularly make me do double takes, but I think his thought process is "I just want everyone to have a good time", whether we find birds or not. He's just a goof. Both are great retrievers, but the DD has more drive after the shot. DD tracking ability trumps the PP.
Find a breeding you like, and you'll be happy, regardless of the breed. They are both great dogs. DD gives you the ability to go in "blind" as their breeding requirements are so strict. PP breeding is, unfortunately, less reliable. Go with a NAPPA breeder, and you'll be good. Some breeders go for octane and range, some go for cooperation and mental stability. I've seen PP and DD that I wouldn't ever want in my house, but most of those made sense when I looked at what the breeder was going for.
Best of luck.
LINK: MissedAgainYT
Disposition: Both are exceedingly friendly, but in their own way. PP has a lab personality, has to be with you and touching and goes nuts for attention. DD is happy to just be around you. You could call her more aloof, but that isn't quite the right word. FWIW, I would leave my DD with my neices and nephews and have zero worries, she is the sweetest dog with kids and seems to know they require a softer touch. Both have a great "off-switch". Even at eight years old, the DD is the first to start playing with pups and old dogs alike. It's really funny. The PP has knocked toddlers over, but that was just because he has no sense of the space he takes up. DD tend to have better coats, PP can really be all over the place.
Training: DD was incredibly easy, she came out of the box a hunting machine. Could take pressure, and learned very fast. She was my first gundog, and she dragged me along while she got her NAVHDA VC. PP was a softer dog, took more care in training. That being said, he's a 204 UT dog, and we'll see if he gets his VC next year.
Hunt: DD is an incredibly cautious hunter. Range is dog dependent, not breed dependent, but DD is a closer worker. Her disposition in the field is all business. I truly think she wants every bird to die, and is slightly upset when we leave without getting them all. PP is a bigger running, flashier dog. His points regularly make me do double takes, but I think his thought process is "I just want everyone to have a good time", whether we find birds or not. He's just a goof. Both are great retrievers, but the DD has more drive after the shot. DD tracking ability trumps the PP.
Find a breeding you like, and you'll be happy, regardless of the breed. They are both great dogs. DD gives you the ability to go in "blind" as their breeding requirements are so strict. PP breeding is, unfortunately, less reliable. Go with a NAPPA breeder, and you'll be good. Some breeders go for octane and range, some go for cooperation and mental stability. I've seen PP and DD that I wouldn't ever want in my house, but most of those made sense when I looked at what the breeder was going for.
Best of luck.
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Weimdogman
Well-known member
I believe hips are a serious concern in the pp as they haven't been as stringent in the breed development as the vdd.
The fur thing is serious in the vdd.
The fur thing is serious in the vdd.
Weimdogman
Well-known member
Putting a VC title on a dog is a serious commitment. You are to be commended!
Missedagain - believe it or not I've watched your dogs on that channel and actually wondered how I could get in touch with you. Both of those dogs were impressive - the PP appeared to be a large-bodied critter while the dd was more medium sized - maybe 55lbs? They had to make some tough retrieves in the cattails and I was like - that's what I want. I'm big into the after-the-shot capabilities of a dog on all birds but especially pheasants. A UT1 and a VC means you've got talented dogs and they have a dedicated owner and solid trainer. Would you care to share where you got your dogs? Feel free to PM if you prefer.
There are a lot of videos on youtube featuring pheasants and dog work and many of them feature iffy retrieves from the pointing dog world. Not yours - well done.
My local DD guy has done very well in the German testing system. I guess one of his dogs placed at the top of the Armbruster, which means next to nothing to me, but is maybe akin to something like a VC? He offers training days for his puppy owners, which is a big draw for me, which shows how motivated he is to help his owners get the most out of their dogs.
There are a lot of videos on youtube featuring pheasants and dog work and many of them feature iffy retrieves from the pointing dog world. Not yours - well done.
My local DD guy has done very well in the German testing system. I guess one of his dogs placed at the top of the Armbruster, which means next to nothing to me, but is maybe akin to something like a VC? He offers training days for his puppy owners, which is a big draw for me, which shows how motivated he is to help his owners get the most out of their dogs.
I don't believe that dysplasia is a present danger like it is for some other breeds, but quality breeders are still testing for it to keep it out. NAPPA requires all breeding dogs to be tested.
Unscrupulous breeding could certainly let it creep in.
They are actually quite similar in weight. The PP was just at the vet, 60lbs and very lean. The DD, if I had to guess, is 65lbs. If you were to lay hands on them, you would notice that the PP is built lighter, and the DD feels very dense, almost like her bones are made of lead.
The PP is a breeding between Cedarwoods Diezl and Prairie Trouts Rambunkous. The DD is out of Slaney-Vale in Manitoba.
I should have noted in my experience, both with my dogs and others, the DD seem to be a bit more durable. The PP will wear down after 4-5 days of hunting, usually the feet first but he drags ass well before the DD. He does cover more ground in an average day though. The DD will slow, but she will never quit, despite being the older dog.
The DD is just a tank. I have missed some serious wounds on her because she was acting totally normal and never slowed down. One time a couple days after a hunt I petted her chest and my finger slid right into a quarter sized wound from some kind of impalement. I missed it in her fur, but she never once showed signs of pain.
LittleBigHorn22
Well-known member
I'll add in to the mix that I have 2 GWPs (so not DD standard) but my younger one is very much like the PP being described. Very fast paced dog but much softer and less grit. She is decent at retrieving and has been great at finding birds buried in brush. My older is extremely methodical and slow hunting, but very independent and often is the first one finding the birds. He isn't great at retrieving/downed birds, but that is probably more training issue than nature.
Since DD and GWP came from PP lines originally it makes sense they are extremely overlapped. GWP just has much more variance than DDs.
Since DD and GWP came from PP lines originally it makes sense they are extremely overlapped. GWP just has much more variance than DDs.
captainshotgun
Active member
I have had both & have a buddy in ND that has had 2 of each. All 3 PP have had structural faults. I knew mine had a severe overbite as I got her as a 6 month old. Lucy was the best pet I ever had & a very passable hunter. Sadly, I had to put her down this past Sept. at age 15.5. You could place raw or cooked food anywhere as long as it was not on the floor & she would not bother it. Both breeds do better in cold weather. Anything warmer than 40* in they get hot quick. If you get a really heavy coated one, 30* is too warm for a long hunt, imho. My bud in ND is going to get a either an EP or a GSP, his DD gets hot when it is in the 20’s. He wants both a cold weather & a warmer weather dog
That's a good point about heat tolerance. My DD is just plain bad in the heat. The PP is much better. Some breeders seem to be breeding leggier and slicker PPs, but I don't necessarily think that's in the best interest of the breed.
Quailnerd
Well-known member
What were the other structural faults in your pp?
captainshotgun
Active member
Not mine, but his had poor front quarters one just a knee, but his last one has really poor front shoulders. 15 yrs old & has not hunted for about 7 yrs. Never could hunt him much
I currently own two Drahts (also a new kennel, vom Verrückten Jäger) and helped train and hunt a friend's Pudel Pointer. They are a lot alike but some differences that stand out. These could be individual dog specific differences but just what I see. The PP is a much softer dog and could not handle heavy pressure during training. The DDs can deal with a lot of pressure in training. The PP has a much more stylish point than the DDs, I mean it's an impressive point in my opinion. The PP is more of a bird dog than a versatile. I think the drive on birds is equal between the dogs, The PP has/had no desire to join in on a raccoon fight on numerous occasions when my DD was taking them out. The PP showed limited desire to chase jackrabbits and would break off within 50 yards where as the DDs would go 500 yards to over a mile chasing/tracking a jackrabbit. The PP has a shorter range than my DDs; it seems like her range tends to be 50-100 yards max. Both the PP and DDs dont do well in the heat. I think the PP is a little more affectionate than the DDs. The PP had teeth issues that required dental work to correct. I think the Drahts have better breeding standards, what a dog has to go through to be certified to breed is well beyond what most breeds go through. There is a time limit on the breed tests (VJP & HZP) that if missed will result in a dog not being useable for breeding. The Breed show catches both conformation and coat. I have only seen one PP that was bred and registered under the German club and my observation during a training prep for a VJP the dog showed no interest in a rabbit (a hare track is a test subject in the VJP). but that could have been a lack exposure issue.
I've owned DDs for 20 years, and my observations limited to one PP I've hunted and been around a lot (5 years) and a half a day watching another PP.
I've owned DDs for 20 years, and my observations limited to one PP I've hunted and been around a lot (5 years) and a half a day watching another PP.
birddude
Well-known member
I don't know much about the P.P.s but I can tell you that the G.W.Ps and the D.D.s have grown in differences over the years. Although the desire for fur can and will show up in the G.W.P.s, there are breeders who breed more for upland and water and tend to discourage aggressiveness, fur desire and tracking. I would bet that they share some ancestors but not all. I don't think the English pointer or poodle were in the G.W.P.s ancestors. I would also bet that the Griffon was a shared ancestor. I can't hardly tell the difference in the three sometimes. I've owned both the D.D. and GWPs and tend to lean towards the GWP's.
GWP comes from the DD. DD is one-fourth PP. PP is a combination of EP and Wasserpudel (sp).
birddude
Well-known member
You seem pretty knowledgeable. weren't both breeds being created about the same time?